4 ms·

Half the range is really a non-starter. And is that range a "best case" range with ideal weather and new batteries and all down hill, or is that a worst case wh

Half the range is really a non-starter. And is that range a "best case" range with ideal weather and new batteries and all down hill, or is that a worst case when its 20 below and the batteries are 5 years old? What's the minimum guaranteed range? Having to have the car tied up to a charging station for long periods of time just to do normal kinds of around-the-town kinds of trips - also a non-starter. Can you imagine a hurricane evac with primarily electric cars? Well, kids, we only made it 50 miles because daddy didn't have hours to charge the car after he got back from work... Currently gas powered cars have a common fuel and storage that does not "wear out" or become obsolete (a tank). Battery powered cars are not quite that way. Kind of in the same way that battery powered tools all have different, incompatible batteries. Those battery powered tools become obsolete all the time when you can no longer find the batteries, or if you can, its cheaper to buy a new tool. So, until they get interchangeable batteries with compatible interfaces, there's significant risk of premature obsolescence, which could significantly inflate the cost. What are you going to do with a 5 year old car in this situation? That same situation is highly unlikely with gas powered cars.

lostlogin 9y ago
I’ve seen work electric vehicles advertised that let you plug your electric tools in. No battery powered tools required and no generator. However not all tools are better when attached by a cord - my lithium ion drill is incredible.
- tomohawk 9y ago
  I agree the new tools are incredible. Their planned obsolescence interval seems to be a lot shorter, though.
kuro68k 9y ago
I am on my second Nissan Leaf and can tell you that your concerns are largely unfounded. Most charging is opportunistic, and when you do need to do a big evacuation a Tesla sized battery can last longer than you can safely drive. In fact in the EU legal limits on commercial drivers are already exceeded by battery tech. As for wearing out, taxi companies with leafs have over 200k on the packs and they are still good. Teslas have hit 500k miles and are still find. All that "new battery every five years" stuff turned out to be nonsense.
- ahartmetz 9y ago
  "When you do need to do a big evacuation a Tesla sized battery can last longer than you can safely drive" This is plainly wrong. Let's say it's a Tesla Model S which has a real world range of about 400 km. That is about four hours of driving. I sometimes drive 600 km easily, with one longer break to eat and maybe a few shorters breaks to pee or just get out of the car and walk around a bit. Your other statements are also somewhat exaggerated, see for example: https://insideevs.com/exclusive-interview-with-steve-marsh-as-his-nissan-leaf-hits-150000-miles-original-battery/ https://insideevs.com/exclusive-interview-with-steve-marsh-a... > 150k miles > 50% capacity > not used in the cold anymore
  - explainplease 9y ago
    That's not all: > No more regenerative braking > 35 mile range now > Using the QC (quick charger?) more than once a day voids battery warranty
  - IanCal 9y ago
    The EU legal limit is > a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes after no more than 4 hours 30 minutes driving and > 9 hours in a day - this can be extended to 10 hours twice a week https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/eu-rules https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/eu-rules The range of a 100KWh model S on the page for the UK ranges from 319 miles at 70mph (four and a half hours) to 514 miles at 45mph (eleven and a half hours). At 100KWh and 3+ miles per KWh (https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/real-world-range-new-owners-be-prepared https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/real-world-range-new-o...) that's still 330 miles, plus. Certainly seems like a reasonable claim that the battery can last longer than you can safely drive, particularly if you're not gunning it down a nice fast road.
    - fjsolwmv 9y ago
      Yep, on evacuation day, when you are sitting in stop and go traffic, EVs are a big win because they get much better mileage at low speeds.
  - 9y ago
Shivetya 9y ago
worse, the range issue is exaggerated in winter. all these range numbers are for mild and warm weather. people need to understand how much range you lose in winter which only gets worse the more internal heat you use. range > charge times > cost. of the first two I am not sure which is easier. besides the cost difference of the power trains there is a serious weight difference as well that was no addressed

lostlogin 9y ago

I’ve seen work electric vehicles advertised that let you plug your electric tools in. No battery powered tools required and no generator. However not all tools are better when attached by a cord - my lithium ion drill is incredible.

tomohawk 9y ago
I agree the new tools are incredible. Their planned obsolescence interval seems to be a lot shorter, though.

kuro68k 9y ago

I am on my second Nissan Leaf and can tell you that your concerns are largely unfounded. Most charging is opportunistic, and when you do need to do a big evacuation a Tesla sized battery can last longer than you can safely drive. In fact in the EU legal limits on commercial drivers are already exceeded by battery tech. As for wearing out, taxi companies with leafs have over 200k on the packs and they are still good. Teslas have hit 500k miles and are still find. All that "new battery every five years" stuff turned out to be nonsense.

ahartmetz 9y ago
"When you do need to do a big evacuation a Tesla sized battery can last longer than you can safely drive" This is plainly wrong. Let's say it's a Tesla Model S which has a real world range of about 400 km. That is about four hours of driving. I sometimes drive 600 km easily, with one longer break to eat and maybe a few shorters breaks to pee or just get out of the car and walk around a bit. Your other statements are also somewhat exaggerated, see for example: https://insideevs.com/exclusive-interview-with-steve-marsh-as-his-nissan-leaf-hits-150000-miles-original-battery/ https://insideevs.com/exclusive-interview-with-steve-marsh-a... > 150k miles > 50% capacity > not used in the cold anymore
- explainplease 9y ago
  That's not all: > No more regenerative braking > 35 mile range now > Using the QC (quick charger?) more than once a day voids battery warranty
- IanCal 9y ago
  The EU legal limit is > a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes after no more than 4 hours 30 minutes driving and > 9 hours in a day - this can be extended to 10 hours twice a week https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/eu-rules https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/eu-rules The range of a 100KWh model S on the page for the UK ranges from 319 miles at 70mph (four and a half hours) to 514 miles at 45mph (eleven and a half hours). At 100KWh and 3+ miles per KWh (https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/real-world-range-new-owners-be-prepared https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/real-world-range-new-o...) that's still 330 miles, plus. Certainly seems like a reasonable claim that the battery can last longer than you can safely drive, particularly if you're not gunning it down a nice fast road.
  - fjsolwmv 9y ago
    Yep, on evacuation day, when you are sitting in stop and go traffic, EVs are a big win because they get much better mileage at low speeds.
- 9y ago

Shivetya 9y ago

worse, the range issue is exaggerated in winter. all these range numbers are for mild and warm weather. people need to understand how much range you lose in winter which only gets worse the more internal heat you use. range > charge times > cost. of the first two I am not sure which is easier. besides the cost difference of the power trains there is a serious weight difference as well that was no addressed