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Are batteries part of the powertrain though ?

randyrand 9y ago
The power train means the parts needed for creating the mechanical power. Batteries are the most essential part in that.
alkonaut 9y ago
Yes, for hybrid and electric vehicles the batteries are now considered part of the powertrain, although the fuel tank was as far as I know never considered part of the power train for an ICE vehicle.
- avar 9y ago
  Because if the fuel tank breaks you can just weld pretty much any replacement on and it'll work, you could even use a bucket on the back of your pick-up trunk & a hose as a temporary replacement. That's not the case with electric cars and their batteries. They're deeply integrated with the rest of the powertrain.
igravious 9y ago
If they are, they oughn't be. Batteries are like a really really expensive fuel tank. The fuel happens to be way cheaper. That's the trade-off. The article fails to mention this, which is odd. ICE: powertrain + fuel tank ~$6,000 (or whatever your local currency) … EV: powertrain + fuel tank ~$16,000 … That makes more sense, but then you'd need – cost of fuel per mile/kilometre ICE: 10¢ a mile EV: 1¢ a mile (or sometimes free?) That's why people are buying electric vehicles already. Okay, maybe it's partly environmental, but surely it is also because they figure that running costs are lower over the lifetime so they might break even overall. As battery prices drop, electric vehicles only become even more economical in the long run.
- saturdaysaint 9y ago
  At the the cost/mile rates that you list, it would probably take 6 years or so to break even (also factoring in the cost savings from oil changes and belts). For the U.S. middle class, at least, that's probably too long of an investment horizon (it's amazing to me how many people lease and buy brand new cars without even doing the math about a used vehicle). So I imagine that there will be a significant uptake in the U.S. when people can expect to save money within the life of a lease, which could be as soon as 3 years with a few bumps in fuel prices.

The power train means the parts needed for creating the mechanical power. Batteries are the most essential part in that.

alkonaut 9y ago

Yes, for hybrid and electric vehicles the batteries are now considered part of the powertrain, although the fuel tank was as far as I know never considered part of the power train for an ICE vehicle.

avar 9y ago
Because if the fuel tank breaks you can just weld pretty much any replacement on and it'll work, you could even use a bucket on the back of your pick-up trunk & a hose as a temporary replacement. That's not the case with electric cars and their batteries. They're deeply integrated with the rest of the powertrain.

igravious 9y ago

If they are, they oughn't be. Batteries are like a really really expensive fuel tank. The fuel happens to be way cheaper. That's the trade-off. The article fails to mention this, which is odd. ICE: powertrain + fuel tank ~$6,000 (or whatever your local currency) … EV: powertrain + fuel tank ~$16,000 … That makes more sense, but then you'd need – cost of fuel per mile/kilometre ICE: 10¢ a mile EV: 1¢ a mile (or sometimes free?) That's why people are buying electric vehicles already. Okay, maybe it's partly environmental, but surely it is also because they figure that running costs are lower over the lifetime so they might break even overall. As battery prices drop, electric vehicles only become even more economical in the long run.

saturdaysaint 9y ago
At the the cost/mile rates that you list, it would probably take 6 years or so to break even (also factoring in the cost savings from oil changes and belts). For the U.S. middle class, at least, that's probably too long of an investment horizon (it's amazing to me how many people lease and buy brand new cars without even doing the math about a used vehicle). So I imagine that there will be a significant uptake in the U.S. when people can expect to save money within the life of a lease, which could be as soon as 3 years with a few bumps in fuel prices.