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This was not the failure of an algorithm. This was the failure of a person to keep in touch with an individual they wanted to call a friend, but couldn't be bot

by subway 9y ago

This was not the failure of an algorithm. This was the failure of a person to keep in touch with an individual they wanted to call a friend, but couldn't be bothered to occasionally reach out to. Facebook enables this sort of behavior in that you can outsource many of your social interactions, but at the end of the day, you as an individual have chosen to outsource those interactions. I quit Facebook nearly 3 years ago, and it certainly 'cost' me some superficial relationships. At the same time, the relatively few relationships I've worked to maintain outside of Facebook feel more fulfilling and way less anxiety inducing than when I outsourced everything to FB.

ringaroundthetx 9y ago
But they were relying on the algorithm to do those things. You quit Facebook so you know what people say "I can't quit because my family is on there" or "I use it to keep in touch", I can relate to this because I quit it much longer ago. People THINK Facebook is keeping them in touch with people. People THINK Facebook is a more efficient way of knowing what other people are doing. People THINK Facebook ensures they will occasionally reach out to people they thought they cared about. This is a mistaken belief, and this person's PSA is making that more clear for people that need to know it. Offer solutions to people instead of badgering them.
- QAPereo 9y ago
  But they were relying on the algorithm to do those things. Which has to be the textbook definition of “not friendship.”
  - CodeWriter23 9y ago
    Yeah, training an algorithm on someone hardly qualifies as “being there” for them.
  - ncallaway 9y ago
    It may be your definition, but you're being EXTREMELY presumptive to think you get to make that definition for others. Why do you feel like you get to decide how others experience friendship?
    - QAPereo 9y ago
      I don’t think that this is something we get to define at this late date of human social evolution, just because the alternative would be to accept the reality of your isolation. Ergo, I’m not deciding anything, just explaining what I believe to be true regardless of my or your feelings on the matter.
wpietri 9y ago
Victim-blaming is ugly, and doubly so when it involves such profound loss. The text makes it quite clear she did her best to keep up: "Now, I'm a meticulous FB feed peruser. I always set it to Most Recent and browse until I see the stuff I saw last time. I keep up." Facebook's whole value proposition is to make it easy to keep in touch with people. Here they clearly failed to live up to their promises. I'm glad you're happy with your choice not to use it, but that doesn't mean those who chose differently are assholes.
- frozenport 9y ago
  Whose's account of their ussage history do you trust more? Facebook which performs record keeping in automated fashion, or this woman's? I know too many people who think they are my friends because of a one-off message concerning travel on facebook.
- barsonme 9y ago
  > but that doesn't mean those who chose differently are assholes. GP did not say that, even indirectly. A more charitable interpretation of GP's post could be, "Facebook gives you the illusion you're keeping in touch with friends, but it's just that—an illusion. You still need to manually keep in touch." There's never going to be an algorithm that will be able to substitute for "traditional" relationships.
- CodeWriter23 9y ago
  It’s not victim blaming when you’re trying to pull a positive lesson from someone else’s tragedy. And I might add, Facebook’s value proposition is about getting personal details about individuals and compiling that into billions of dossiers valued by advertisers. If you’re not the customer, you’re the product.
  - dang 9y ago
    I don't know if it's victim blaming but it's something ugly to rub someone's nose in their pain and tell them what a failure they are. This is brutish behavior masquerading as moral correction, and it's deeply unwelcome on this site.
chrischen 9y ago
But when you train a generation to delegate maintaining their relationships through the Facebook news feed, it stops being their fault. When it becomes normal then everyone will trust the news feed, which I'm sure is what the dying man must have done. Had facebook not been there creating a false sense of connectedness, people would have known to reach out.
- CodeWriter23 9y ago
  A wise man once told me, you can delegate authority but you cannot delegate responsibility. It is the responsibility of every individual to utilize their capacity for critical thinking.
  - chrischen 9y ago
    We're all sheep.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
dang 9y ago
> failure > couldn't be bothered Please don't post cruel things to HN. This violates the site guideline which says: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." It's clearly in the spirit of this site to extend that not just to what people say, but to how they behave. The fact that the person you're being cruel about probably isn't within earshot makes no difference, because the issue is what kind of community we are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by subway 9y ago

ringaroundthetx 9y ago

But they were relying on the algorithm to do those things. You quit Facebook so you know what people say "I can't quit because my family is on there" or "I use it to keep in touch", I can relate to this because I quit it much longer ago. People THINK Facebook is keeping them in touch with people. People THINK Facebook is a more efficient way of knowing what other people are doing. People THINK Facebook ensures they will occasionally reach out to people they thought they cared about. This is a mistaken belief, and this person's PSA is making that more clear for people that need to know it. Offer solutions to people instead of badgering them.

QAPereo 9y ago
But they were relying on the algorithm to do those things. Which has to be the textbook definition of “not friendship.”
- CodeWriter23 9y ago
  Yeah, training an algorithm on someone hardly qualifies as “being there” for them.
- ncallaway 9y ago
  It may be your definition, but you're being EXTREMELY presumptive to think you get to make that definition for others. Why do you feel like you get to decide how others experience friendship?
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    I don’t think that this is something we get to define at this late date of human social evolution, just because the alternative would be to accept the reality of your isolation. Ergo, I’m not deciding anything, just explaining what I believe to be true regardless of my or your feelings on the matter.

wpietri 9y ago

Victim-blaming is ugly, and doubly so when it involves such profound loss. The text makes it quite clear she did her best to keep up: "Now, I'm a meticulous FB feed peruser. I always set it to Most Recent and browse until I see the stuff I saw last time. I keep up." Facebook's whole value proposition is to make it easy to keep in touch with people. Here they clearly failed to live up to their promises. I'm glad you're happy with your choice not to use it, but that doesn't mean those who chose differently are assholes.

frozenport 9y ago
Whose's account of their ussage history do you trust more? Facebook which performs record keeping in automated fashion, or this woman's? I know too many people who think they are my friends because of a one-off message concerning travel on facebook.
barsonme 9y ago
> but that doesn't mean those who chose differently are assholes. GP did not say that, even indirectly. A more charitable interpretation of GP's post could be, "Facebook gives you the illusion you're keeping in touch with friends, but it's just that—an illusion. You still need to manually keep in touch." There's never going to be an algorithm that will be able to substitute for "traditional" relationships.
CodeWriter23 9y ago
It’s not victim blaming when you’re trying to pull a positive lesson from someone else’s tragedy. And I might add, Facebook’s value proposition is about getting personal details about individuals and compiling that into billions of dossiers valued by advertisers. If you’re not the customer, you’re the product.
- dang 9y ago
  I don't know if it's victim blaming but it's something ugly to rub someone's nose in their pain and tell them what a failure they are. This is brutish behavior masquerading as moral correction, and it's deeply unwelcome on this site.

chrischen 9y ago

But when you train a generation to delegate maintaining their relationships through the Facebook news feed, it stops being their fault. When it becomes normal then everyone will trust the news feed, which I'm sure is what the dying man must have done. Had facebook not been there creating a false sense of connectedness, people would have known to reach out.

CodeWriter23 9y ago
A wise man once told me, you can delegate authority but you cannot delegate responsibility. It is the responsibility of every individual to utilize their capacity for critical thinking.
- chrischen 9y ago
  We're all sheep.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

dang 9y ago

> failure > couldn't be bothered Please don't post cruel things to HN. This violates the site guideline which says: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." It's clearly in the spirit of this site to extend that not just to what people say, but to how they behave. The fact that the person you're being cruel about probably isn't within earshot makes no difference, because the issue is what kind of community we are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html