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The biggest hurdle to move away from tipping is that the people that get screwed by the tipping culture are the first one to want to stay in it. They are also

The biggest hurdle to move away from tipping is that the people that get screwed by the tipping culture are the first one to want to stay in it. They are also the first ones to moralize people about how tipping is a must and if you don't tip, that poor waiter will be unable to make a living. NO! The ones that get away easy in this whole scheme are the owners that have now no responsibility to pay their employees correctly.

herbst 9y ago
The issue here again is the screwed up minimal wage, or how tips can be accounted for that. Therefore a american exclusive issue. Source: Most people i know who earn tips, are the ones who rather refuse or minimize a tip to someone else (central europe).
deftturtle 9y ago
Exactly. I quit a job where I was paid minimum plus tips, but it's not enough. The restaurant should pay more than minimum wage. Profits should be split, regardless of how tips are handled. They try to keep the cost of food at 30%, as is common in business. COG around 1/3 or less. So when we have a really busy night, there is excess profit relative to the amount of tips. Assuming tips are a constant percentage of sales, the amount we earn extra is proportionate to sales. But there is a certain minimum number of sales the owner must reach to break even. At a certain volume, profit accelerates further, but tips are still relatively constant. So my desire would be for a restaurant to split excess revenues more equitably in addition to whatever baseline wage they set.
- will_hughes 9y ago
  > The restaurant should pay more than minimum wage. Perhaps, but it sounds more like that your minimum wage isn't set to be a living wage[1]. That's the important part - minimum wages should be set so that someone who is working full time (~40 hours/week) should be getting enough income so that they can afford a modest standard of living for themselves and a family too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage
  - ggg9990 9y ago
    > minimum wages should be set so that someone who is working full time (~40 hours/week) should be getting enough income so that they can afford a modest standard of living for themselves and a family too Can I ask... Why? Shouldn't a "minimum" wage provide a "minimal" lifestyle rather than a modest lifestyle? And why should one be able to support a family on a single minimum wage?
    - allhailkatt 9y ago
      Because single mothers exist, so supporting a family on one income is needed to ensure a minimal amount of suffering happens to children who didn't ask to be poor, and have no way of opting out of poverty. Also, modest = minimal by the original standards. Historical context: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minimum_wage https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minimum_wage
      - ggg9990 9y ago
        It's much better to identify single mothers and make sure their kids are OK with welfare than make the national minimum wage enough to do so.
        will_hughes 9y ago
        Better for whom?
        ggg9990 9y ago
        Better for the people paying the wages and the other consumers of those people's goods and services, and for workers who are employable only at particularly low wages.
    - will_hughes 9y ago
      "modest" doesn't mean driving Teslas and eating out every night. It means being able to afford the basics: housing, food, healthcare, transport, and still being able to have enough left over to build a 'rainy day' (emergency) fund. And the reason "modest" rather than "minimal" is because one is living, the other is effective slavery. People who cannot afford for one moment to stop are people who are on the edge of disaster. Any (additional) misfortune that strikes - whether by their own actions or not - could send them from "surviving" to now being forced into debt, which while it might provide temporary relief, almost certainly means they are now in a downward cycle. With a living wage, even if misfortune does drive them into debt - there's at least a better opportunity for them to work their way out.

herbst 9y ago

The issue here again is the screwed up minimal wage, or how tips can be accounted for that. Therefore a american exclusive issue. Source: Most people i know who earn tips, are the ones who rather refuse or minimize a tip to someone else (central europe).

deftturtle 9y ago

Exactly. I quit a job where I was paid minimum plus tips, but it's not enough. The restaurant should pay more than minimum wage. Profits should be split, regardless of how tips are handled. They try to keep the cost of food at 30%, as is common in business. COG around 1/3 or less. So when we have a really busy night, there is excess profit relative to the amount of tips. Assuming tips are a constant percentage of sales, the amount we earn extra is proportionate to sales. But there is a certain minimum number of sales the owner must reach to break even. At a certain volume, profit accelerates further, but tips are still relatively constant. So my desire would be for a restaurant to split excess revenues more equitably in addition to whatever baseline wage they set.

will_hughes 9y ago
> The restaurant should pay more than minimum wage. Perhaps, but it sounds more like that your minimum wage isn't set to be a living wage[1]. That's the important part - minimum wages should be set so that someone who is working full time (~40 hours/week) should be getting enough income so that they can afford a modest standard of living for themselves and a family too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage
- ggg9990 9y ago
  > minimum wages should be set so that someone who is working full time (~40 hours/week) should be getting enough income so that they can afford a modest standard of living for themselves and a family too Can I ask... Why? Shouldn't a "minimum" wage provide a "minimal" lifestyle rather than a modest lifestyle? And why should one be able to support a family on a single minimum wage?
  - allhailkatt 9y ago
    Because single mothers exist, so supporting a family on one income is needed to ensure a minimal amount of suffering happens to children who didn't ask to be poor, and have no way of opting out of poverty. Also, modest = minimal by the original standards. Historical context: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minimum_wage https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minimum_wage
    - ggg9990 9y ago
      It's much better to identify single mothers and make sure their kids are OK with welfare than make the national minimum wage enough to do so.
      - will_hughes 9y ago
        Better for whom?
        ggg9990 9y ago
        Better for the people paying the wages and the other consumers of those people's goods and services, and for workers who are employable only at particularly low wages.
  - will_hughes 9y ago
    "modest" doesn't mean driving Teslas and eating out every night. It means being able to afford the basics: housing, food, healthcare, transport, and still being able to have enough left over to build a 'rainy day' (emergency) fund. And the reason "modest" rather than "minimal" is because one is living, the other is effective slavery. People who cannot afford for one moment to stop are people who are on the edge of disaster. Any (additional) misfortune that strikes - whether by their own actions or not - could send them from "surviving" to now being forced into debt, which while it might provide temporary relief, almost certainly means they are now in a downward cycle. With a living wage, even if misfortune does drive them into debt - there's at least a better opportunity for them to work their way out.