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Sounds more like whale/s telling people to raise the price of a coin then dumping on them, rather than some kind of a 'collaborative' pump. The article is talk

Sounds more like whale/s telling people to raise the price of a coin then dumping on them, rather than some kind of a 'collaborative' pump. The article is talking about minutes after all so there's likely no outside buyers fast enough to react. Essentially most 'members of the community' will lose, but some lucky ones will be fast enough to dump before the whale for at least some cash.

ceejayoz 9y ago
You're probably right - the folks in this group think they're running the scam, but they're mostly (unsympathetic) victims of it. Safe bet the admin's purchasing the coin before sending the "pump FooCoin!" message, and dumping it before sending the "make it crash now" one.
KVFinn 9y ago
>The article is talking about minutes after all so there's likely no outside buyers fast enough to react. The article doesn't talk about it, but there are campaigns organized over days and weeks to talk up a coin. It's not all about minute timescales.
- mancerayder 9y ago
  Do you have evidence of these? Don't get me wrong, I believe you, but convincing evidence, even anecdotal, would be useful. Of the big coins, not the hundreds of random ones with "To The Moon" Reddit comments.
  - KVFinn 9y ago
    >Of the big coins, not the hundreds of random ones with "To The Moon" Reddit comments. In terms of personal experience, I've not seen anything as explicit as this article. And nothing with a giant market cap coin. More like a gray area between pump and dump and a bunch of over enthusiastic marketers. Like I'll be reading a forum and notice a ton of people hyping up a small market cap coin. Check their post histories and they are generally new or they've only talked about the coin. Eventually find the slack/discord for the coin, people are posting links to forums/threads/mentions of the coin in the discord, and people are organizing shifts to give support. The comments are all purportedly coming from a genuine place (and to an extend they may be) but they were posted as if they were just random people stumbling across this discussion -- not an organized group explicitly trying to spread the good word.
    - Gargoyle 9y ago
      Pump'n'Dump of that sort for small coins has been going on since literally the beginning of altcoins. I'm not in the altcoin arena now, but I assume it's the same as it was. Really, there wasn't much different between that era and the yahoo penny stock boards of the late 90s. Learning to detect and filter that noise is a crucial skill if you're gonna trade those things.
      - ecommerceguy 9y ago
        "Really, there wasn't much different between that era and the yahoo penny stock boards of the late 90s." I came here to say exactly this. Coins are extremely similar in nature to pink sheets. Bitcoinforums et al are the new yahoo finance forums. Full of shills and pumpers, be very VERY wary. I was doing "research" this weekend for some long tail alts I could ride the pump on next. I couldn't help but note the number of template Diva Wordpress sites out there, all using the exact same template just with different fonts and minor style changes. All have some bullshit "whitepaper" (overused term of the year). Then I thought this can't be that hard to start my own. So, I am. Hopefully I'll pump my own coin within the next few weeks. I've noted a few criteria that I'm sure will attract some gamblers/fools. On a side note, the eBay market for mining rigs and accessories is stunningly healthy.
        amigoingtodie 9y ago
        I am interested in the criteria you have identified. Would you be willing to discuss this further? I have some silly ideas.
  - zmk_ 9y ago
    LTC seems like a bubble.
    - nlperguiy 9y ago
      All cryptocurrencies are a bubble. Technology is still not there yet. There's no scaling solution anywhere in sight. These valuations are for a product that does not exist. If scaling miraculously comes then the price might hold, otherwise the transaction fees will grow up to a point that most small investors won't be able to make that 2nd layer entry transaction and will be stuck on the expensive 1st layer. The price will then crash.
      - gruez 9y ago
        >Technology is still not there yet. There's no scaling solution anywhere in sight. lightning network?
        astrodust 9y ago
        The what what? This whitepaper? https://lightning.network/#intro https://lightning.network/#intro Show me some working software or this is all hand-waving bullshit. That thing's dated 2015, so where's it at?
        ric2b 9y ago
        > Show me some working software or this is all hand-waving bullshit. You're in luck: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.acinq.eclair.wallet&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.acinq.eclai... https://medium.com/@lightning_network/lightning-protocol-1-0-compatibility-achieved-f9d22b7b19c4 https://medium.com/@lightning_network/lightning-protocol-1-0... There are currently 3 implementations by different teams being tested, all compatible with each-other and open-source. No, it's not production ready, there are still plenty of bugs and missing features but it's close and you can go test it right now on testnet if you want to.
        9y ago
- cik2e 9y ago
  I've observed these telegram groups in action and have followed the execution of their campaigns. True, they market them for days but the spike and drop in price is indeed quick to the tune of minutes. The organizers load up on the coins ahead of time and are basically preying on their unwitting followers. If you hang out crypto telegrams or slack for long enough you'll see that the organizers spend pretty much all of their time recruiting newbs for the next pump.
  - yclept 9y ago
    Exactly the same outcome as Runescape "merchanting" aka pump and dumping where the majority of the participants were looking to make a quick flip and end up screwed over by the organizers who bought in much earlier start selling early as well. I think much of what is happening in the crypto currency scene has played out in virtual economies a decade earlier and irl for hundreds of years prior.

ceejayoz 9y ago

You're probably right - the folks in this group think they're running the scam, but they're mostly (unsympathetic) victims of it. Safe bet the admin's purchasing the coin before sending the "pump FooCoin!" message, and dumping it before sending the "make it crash now" one.

KVFinn 9y ago

>The article is talking about minutes after all so there's likely no outside buyers fast enough to react. The article doesn't talk about it, but there are campaigns organized over days and weeks to talk up a coin. It's not all about minute timescales.

mancerayder 9y ago
Do you have evidence of these? Don't get me wrong, I believe you, but convincing evidence, even anecdotal, would be useful. Of the big coins, not the hundreds of random ones with "To The Moon" Reddit comments.
- KVFinn 9y ago
  >Of the big coins, not the hundreds of random ones with "To The Moon" Reddit comments. In terms of personal experience, I've not seen anything as explicit as this article. And nothing with a giant market cap coin. More like a gray area between pump and dump and a bunch of over enthusiastic marketers. Like I'll be reading a forum and notice a ton of people hyping up a small market cap coin. Check their post histories and they are generally new or they've only talked about the coin. Eventually find the slack/discord for the coin, people are posting links to forums/threads/mentions of the coin in the discord, and people are organizing shifts to give support. The comments are all purportedly coming from a genuine place (and to an extend they may be) but they were posted as if they were just random people stumbling across this discussion -- not an organized group explicitly trying to spread the good word.
  - Gargoyle 9y ago
    Pump'n'Dump of that sort for small coins has been going on since literally the beginning of altcoins. I'm not in the altcoin arena now, but I assume it's the same as it was. Really, there wasn't much different between that era and the yahoo penny stock boards of the late 90s. Learning to detect and filter that noise is a crucial skill if you're gonna trade those things.
    - ecommerceguy 9y ago
      "Really, there wasn't much different between that era and the yahoo penny stock boards of the late 90s." I came here to say exactly this. Coins are extremely similar in nature to pink sheets. Bitcoinforums et al are the new yahoo finance forums. Full of shills and pumpers, be very VERY wary. I was doing "research" this weekend for some long tail alts I could ride the pump on next. I couldn't help but note the number of template Diva Wordpress sites out there, all using the exact same template just with different fonts and minor style changes. All have some bullshit "whitepaper" (overused term of the year). Then I thought this can't be that hard to start my own. So, I am. Hopefully I'll pump my own coin within the next few weeks. I've noted a few criteria that I'm sure will attract some gamblers/fools. On a side note, the eBay market for mining rigs and accessories is stunningly healthy.
      - amigoingtodie 9y ago
        I am interested in the criteria you have identified. Would you be willing to discuss this further? I have some silly ideas.
- zmk_ 9y ago
  LTC seems like a bubble.
  - nlperguiy 9y ago
    All cryptocurrencies are a bubble. Technology is still not there yet. There's no scaling solution anywhere in sight. These valuations are for a product that does not exist. If scaling miraculously comes then the price might hold, otherwise the transaction fees will grow up to a point that most small investors won't be able to make that 2nd layer entry transaction and will be stuck on the expensive 1st layer. The price will then crash.
    - gruez 9y ago
      >Technology is still not there yet. There's no scaling solution anywhere in sight. lightning network?
      - astrodust 9y ago
        The what what? This whitepaper? https://lightning.network/#intro https://lightning.network/#intro Show me some working software or this is all hand-waving bullshit. That thing's dated 2015, so where's it at?
        ric2b 9y ago
        > Show me some working software or this is all hand-waving bullshit. You're in luck: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.acinq.eclair.wallet&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.acinq.eclai... https://medium.com/@lightning_network/lightning-protocol-1-0-compatibility-achieved-f9d22b7b19c4 https://medium.com/@lightning_network/lightning-protocol-1-0... There are currently 3 implementations by different teams being tested, all compatible with each-other and open-source. No, it's not production ready, there are still plenty of bugs and missing features but it's close and you can go test it right now on testnet if you want to.
        9y ago
cik2e 9y ago
I've observed these telegram groups in action and have followed the execution of their campaigns. True, they market them for days but the spike and drop in price is indeed quick to the tune of minutes. The organizers load up on the coins ahead of time and are basically preying on their unwitting followers. If you hang out crypto telegrams or slack for long enough you'll see that the organizers spend pretty much all of their time recruiting newbs for the next pump.
- yclept 9y ago
  Exactly the same outcome as Runescape "merchanting" aka pump and dumping where the majority of the participants were looking to make a quick flip and end up screwed over by the organizers who bought in much earlier start selling early as well. I think much of what is happening in the crypto currency scene has played out in virtual economies a decade earlier and irl for hundreds of years prior.