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I feel completely put out by the smartphone market when it comes to music listening these days. I care a lot about audio quality, and I run a lot. This means tw

I feel completely put out by the smartphone market when it comes to music listening these days. I care a lot about audio quality, and I run a lot. This means two problems: 1. Bluetooth headphones usually have shit audio quality, and too little battery life for someone who listens as much as I do. 2. I have yet to use a phone in the last 8+ years that I didn't destroy the 3.5mm jack on over the course of <1 year of running. The same thing is clearly applying to the USB-C adapter on my Pixel 2. It frequently needs to be removed and plugged back in mid-run. It feels like I don't have any options here. Anyone have any good tips? Particularly for a Pixel 2? Is there maybe a better aftermarket adapter?

photojosh 9y ago
> 2. I have yet to use a phone in the last 8+ years that I didn't destroy the 3.5mm jack on over the course of <1 year of running. Plugging the headphones straight in will transfer huge amounts of vibration directly to the solder joints on the jack insider the phone while running. Maybe consider an adaptor that brings a right-angled plug out to a socket for your headphones, much like [0]? [0]: https://www.jaycar.com.au/adaptor-3-5mm-stereo-socket-3-5mm-stereo-plug-right-angle/p/PA3503 https://www.jaycar.com.au/adaptor-3-5mm-stereo-socket-3-5mm-...
Veratyr 9y ago
> Is there maybe a better aftermarket adapter? Westone makes a decent Bluetooth cable with MMCX connectors so you can plug it directly into buds themselves, without a separate 3.5mm cable.
kec 9y ago
Do you really care about audio quality that much when you’re out running? You’re not exactly in an ideal listening environment, and whatever bud type headphones you’re wearing won’t be able to accurately reproduce bass anyway.
- falcolas 9y ago
  > won’t be able to accurately reproduce bass I will personally throw this in the "it depends" category. I've had a pair of IEMs which reproduced bass as well as my 3' tall speakers (with dedicated bass, mid, and treble cones). Sure, my ass wasn't being shaken with the IEMs, but the low level details were there.
  - kec 9y ago
    Sure, but are you wearing IEMs while running? Sound isolation isn’t a virtue in that case.
    - falcolas 9y ago
      > Sound isolation isn’t a virtue in that case It's only around 20-25db of isolation, so unless you really have your music cranked, you can still typically hear vehicles (and can definitely hear horns). I know a few people who love IEMs for exercising (including running), since they pretty much never fall out unintentionally. You can't even really pull them out by the cord.
- sushisource 9y ago
  This is a fair point but all the buds I've tried absolutely suck. I use Shure SE215 buds which I love, and I've yet to try anything wireless that feels as good. To be fair, I haven't tried many pairs, though. The main problem I've found is it seems almost all of them use rubber rather than foam tips, which conducts a huge amount of noise from the cord bumping around. If you've got recommendations I'm all ears!
  - kec 9y ago
    I rather like AirPods, but ymmv if they fit your ears.
  - bydo 9y ago
    Westone makes a Bluetooth cable with the same connectors used on most Shure IEMs: https://www.westone.com/store/music/index.php/bluetooth-cable https://www.westone.com/store/music/index.php/bluetooth-cabl...
    - sushisource 9y ago
      Holy crap now we're talking. This is sweet, thank you.
- throwawayfinal 9y ago
  I don't think it's so much audio quality while running as it is being able to use headphones both for listening at quality AND for running.
  - saurik 9y ago
    I often wear different pants while I am exercising; I can also use a different pair of headphones?
    - throwawayfinal 9y ago
      I think it's more that if I spend $200 on headphones that proclaim to be good for fitness, I expect them to sound great as well and in general be worth the $200.
    - PascLeRasc 9y ago
      How many phones do you own?
  - ascagnel_ 9y ago
    If you have the budget, I think it's better to have different sets since the activities are so different you'll probably want drastically different things out of them. I use a pair of bluetooth earbuds when I work out because they're convenient and built to take sweat and inclement weather, but at home I use a pair of over-ear wired headphones with cloth earcups.
    - SirZimzim 9y ago
      I do similar, use amped headphones at my desk but cheap Bluetooth headphones for working out. I actually enjoy it because I don't have to worry about being careful with the headphones and I get to listen to a more "fun" sound signature for a short while. Chinese audio has really progressed well and it's really impressive what you can get for $30
smacktoward 9y ago
This is why I wish that smartphones hadn't completely killed the market for standalone music-playing devices. Smartphones are fragile and finicky and expensive, none of which is really what you want in a device you'll be using while running. What you want in that scenario is a device that can shrug off the occasional bump or drop, that you can operate without having to look at a screen, and that you can replace when it breaks (because it will break) without having to take out a second mortgage. But instead of giving us devices that speak directly to those needs, the market requires us to spend even more on add-on products (rubberized cases, wireless earbuds, etc.) to try and take absurdly over-spec'ed smartphones wrapped in glass and entirely designed around a touch-based UI and make them slighly less inappropriate for what we want to do. Sigh.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  SanDisk is still making new mp3 players. $50, buttons, etc.
  - epicide 9y ago
    I used to use a Sansa Clip+ with Rockbox installed as my main music device. I would highly suggest one of those if they weren't discontinued and now kinda pricey for what they are. I would say if you really need FLAC support, go for one and put Rockbox on there. Otherwise, I'd be interested to know how good the new Sansa Clip models are.
    - DanBC 9y ago
      It's not possible to install Rockbox on newer Sansa Clip models. They're a nice MP3 player. The Clip Jam is very cheap. It feels a bit cheap. They dropped the colour screen and the case feels a bit plasticy. There's some weirdness if you use a microSD card (playlists go weird, for example).
- rjsw 9y ago
  I use my dumbphone to play music, it will take a 32GB SD card and has a FM radio. Dropped it a few times without any damage. I have a slightly broken iPod but the phone+sdcard was cheaper than getting it repaired.
falcolas 9y ago
For what little it's worth, my iPhone SE has held up remarkably well, and the audio output is, while not perfect, typically good enough for headphones (even more expensive IEM headphones). And the audio output is a standard 3.5mm jack.
zodPod 9y ago
The Samsung Galaxy S8+ still has a headphone jack. I'm with you it's ridiculous to remove them. I'm not sure who is making these decisions but I really feel like someone needs to wake them up.
- seccess 9y ago
  While I agree with your opinion about removing headphone jacks, I think OP means that even phones with a headphone jack tend to have it break due to OP's heavy use of it.
Anechoic 9y ago
> I have yet to use a phone in the last 8+ years that I didn't destroy the 3.5mm jack on over the course of <1 year of running Interesting. I have a similar issue, but rather than destroying the headphone jack on the phone (iPhone 5s and SE), I've been destroying the 3.5mm connector on the headphone. Since the headphones I used ranged from $80 to $150, I got real sick of broken headphones. My solution was purchase these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZK43S4Q/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZK43S4Q/ in bulk. I get about 3-4 months out of each adapter, when it flakes out, I toss it and install the next one. So far, so good, I've gotten a 15 months out of my latest set of headphones so far.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jdc0589 9y ago
there really isn't a perfect solution for running/jogging/etc... so far as players go...at least for me. I don't want to carry a phone to go running. My "good enough" solution was to buy a sansa clip, install rockbox, and just use that. It's only possible because I don't care about having a huge variety of music to listen to while running, so I can just outright purchase the tracks/albums I want, load them up, and enjoy running with music and basically no extra weight.
- frio 9y ago
  This is a space the watches are trying to fill. The Apple Watch has (from memory) 8GB of memory, can pair directly with a set of earphones, and plays music without the phone. Combined with the GPS and heart sensor, it's a pretty complete story. I doubt the price of entry is really worth it, but yeah, I hated running with my phone last year and this seems better.
- sushisource 9y ago
  Main problems with this for me is I do like the variety, and I don't like the overhead of having to pre-load the music. Spotify is fantastic and I want to use it while running.
sz4kerto 9y ago
Sony headphones support hidef audio through BT. They're quite all right.
dylan-m 9y ago
And it gets worse: Apple discontinued all of their iPods except the one that looks like an iPhone because they want everyone to buy their expensive watch instead. And phones still seem to get bigger every year. We're approaching a point where options here don't even exist. (There are other options, not as pretty and small but fairly good. But Apple tends to set the trend so we're basically doomed :b). I'm hoping we'll see more products like the Mighty, or maybe some Android Wear devices that aren't wristwatches (I already have a wristwatch, thank you). But seems like a faint hope. I lost my iPod Shuffle through a boardwalk last month, decided I didn't feel like crawling through a puddle full of discarded needles in 5°C to get it back, and almost regretted the decision when I discovered they are selling used on Amazon for about $170.
- Moto7451 9y ago
  I think it’s more likely that the iPod Touch remains because it’s a great device to let kids abuse in place of your expensive phone. The market for dedicated audio players can’t be what it once was and audiophiles have other options. The Sansa line at one point had (or still has) the same audio chip as the iPod (Classic), is cheaper, and is super well reviewed. I think people interested in dedicated players have moved onto that. As for your theory, the iPod Touch doesn’t work with the Apple Watch. No GPS/Cellular/etc makes it mostly useless as a parent device for the non-LTE watches and the LTE watch has better connectivity. https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/177304/can-you-use-the-apple-watch-with-an-ipod-touch https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/177304/can-you-use...
  - click170 9y ago
    > The Sansa line at one point had (or still has) the same audio chip as the iPod (Classic), is cheaper, and is super well reviewed. I think people interested in dedicated players have moved onto that. This looks promising on the face of it but is missing a key killer-feature IMO. The reason I still use an iPod for my MP3s is for a specific feature in iTunes that I've not yet found elsewhere, I forget the name they use but I call them dynamic playlists. Most of my playlists generate themselves based on DateAdded, LastPlayed, LastSkipped, Rating, Tags and other attributes. When I add a song I give it some tags and sync my iPod, and then it will over time and after a few syncs, end up in other playlists based on how often I play it and what rating I give it. It's a feature that I very much enjoy, and feels like a significant step up from manually managing playlists. I wish I had the same for my Movie library. I've seriously been considering building my own gizmo with a Raspberry pi, an LCD screen and some scripts but that's rather unappealing aesthetically. Has anyone got an equivalent to dynamic libraries + mp3 players working without iTunes? The crux seems to be that the mp3 player needs to keep a log of what's played and when and needs to support ratings, even if the player itself doesn't update the playlists until it's synced. I'm not even huge on sound quality or big on Apple products, it's just the features I like I can't find elsewhere.
ThrowawayR2 9y ago
I've never used one myself but you could try a battery-powered Bluetooth receiver coupled with the headphones of your choice. Most claim a fairly long battery life per charge and are reasonably inexpensive. Some examples: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KXYXXK2/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KXYXXK2/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KO1JNCA/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KO1JNCA/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0154G9CYY/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0154G9CYY/
- sushisource 9y ago
  Hmm. The Sony one seems worth a shot. I bought a cheap shit version of one of these a while back and (surprise) it absolutely sucks. I'll research the Sony one, the other two are way too big.
  - digitalengineer 9y ago
    Here is some research: https://www.fakespot.com/product/sony-sbh54-black-stereo-bluetooth-headset-b0ed04b4-055a-4e81-8e89-fae3fa865c18 https://www.fakespot.com/product/sony-sbh54-black-stereo-blu...

photojosh 9y ago

> 2. I have yet to use a phone in the last 8+ years that I didn't destroy the 3.5mm jack on over the course of <1 year of running. Plugging the headphones straight in will transfer huge amounts of vibration directly to the solder joints on the jack insider the phone while running. Maybe consider an adaptor that brings a right-angled plug out to a socket for your headphones, much like [0]? [0]: https://www.jaycar.com.au/adaptor-3-5mm-stereo-socket-3-5mm-stereo-plug-right-angle/p/PA3503 https://www.jaycar.com.au/adaptor-3-5mm-stereo-socket-3-5mm-...

Veratyr 9y ago

> Is there maybe a better aftermarket adapter? Westone makes a decent Bluetooth cable with MMCX connectors so you can plug it directly into buds themselves, without a separate 3.5mm cable.

kec 9y ago

Do you really care about audio quality that much when you’re out running? You’re not exactly in an ideal listening environment, and whatever bud type headphones you’re wearing won’t be able to accurately reproduce bass anyway.

falcolas 9y ago
> won’t be able to accurately reproduce bass I will personally throw this in the "it depends" category. I've had a pair of IEMs which reproduced bass as well as my 3' tall speakers (with dedicated bass, mid, and treble cones). Sure, my ass wasn't being shaken with the IEMs, but the low level details were there.
- kec 9y ago
  Sure, but are you wearing IEMs while running? Sound isolation isn’t a virtue in that case.
  - falcolas 9y ago
    > Sound isolation isn’t a virtue in that case It's only around 20-25db of isolation, so unless you really have your music cranked, you can still typically hear vehicles (and can definitely hear horns). I know a few people who love IEMs for exercising (including running), since they pretty much never fall out unintentionally. You can't even really pull them out by the cord.
sushisource 9y ago
This is a fair point but all the buds I've tried absolutely suck. I use Shure SE215 buds which I love, and I've yet to try anything wireless that feels as good. To be fair, I haven't tried many pairs, though. The main problem I've found is it seems almost all of them use rubber rather than foam tips, which conducts a huge amount of noise from the cord bumping around. If you've got recommendations I'm all ears!
- kec 9y ago
  I rather like AirPods, but ymmv if they fit your ears.
- bydo 9y ago
  Westone makes a Bluetooth cable with the same connectors used on most Shure IEMs: https://www.westone.com/store/music/index.php/bluetooth-cable https://www.westone.com/store/music/index.php/bluetooth-cabl...
  - sushisource 9y ago
    Holy crap now we're talking. This is sweet, thank you.
throwawayfinal 9y ago
I don't think it's so much audio quality while running as it is being able to use headphones both for listening at quality AND for running.
- saurik 9y ago
  I often wear different pants while I am exercising; I can also use a different pair of headphones?
  - throwawayfinal 9y ago
    I think it's more that if I spend $200 on headphones that proclaim to be good for fitness, I expect them to sound great as well and in general be worth the $200.
  - PascLeRasc 9y ago
    How many phones do you own?
- ascagnel_ 9y ago
  If you have the budget, I think it's better to have different sets since the activities are so different you'll probably want drastically different things out of them. I use a pair of bluetooth earbuds when I work out because they're convenient and built to take sweat and inclement weather, but at home I use a pair of over-ear wired headphones with cloth earcups.
  - SirZimzim 9y ago
    I do similar, use amped headphones at my desk but cheap Bluetooth headphones for working out. I actually enjoy it because I don't have to worry about being careful with the headphones and I get to listen to a more "fun" sound signature for a short while. Chinese audio has really progressed well and it's really impressive what you can get for $30

smacktoward 9y ago

This is why I wish that smartphones hadn't completely killed the market for standalone music-playing devices. Smartphones are fragile and finicky and expensive, none of which is really what you want in a device you'll be using while running. What you want in that scenario is a device that can shrug off the occasional bump or drop, that you can operate without having to look at a screen, and that you can replace when it breaks (because it will break) without having to take out a second mortgage. But instead of giving us devices that speak directly to those needs, the market requires us to spend even more on add-on products (rubberized cases, wireless earbuds, etc.) to try and take absurdly over-spec'ed smartphones wrapped in glass and entirely designed around a touch-based UI and make them slighly less inappropriate for what we want to do. Sigh.

maxerickson 9y ago
SanDisk is still making new mp3 players. $50, buttons, etc.
- epicide 9y ago
  I used to use a Sansa Clip+ with Rockbox installed as my main music device. I would highly suggest one of those if they weren't discontinued and now kinda pricey for what they are. I would say if you really need FLAC support, go for one and put Rockbox on there. Otherwise, I'd be interested to know how good the new Sansa Clip models are.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    It's not possible to install Rockbox on newer Sansa Clip models. They're a nice MP3 player. The Clip Jam is very cheap. It feels a bit cheap. They dropped the colour screen and the case feels a bit plasticy. There's some weirdness if you use a microSD card (playlists go weird, for example).
rjsw 9y ago
I use my dumbphone to play music, it will take a 32GB SD card and has a FM radio. Dropped it a few times without any damage. I have a slightly broken iPod but the phone+sdcard was cheaper than getting it repaired.

falcolas 9y ago

For what little it's worth, my iPhone SE has held up remarkably well, and the audio output is, while not perfect, typically good enough for headphones (even more expensive IEM headphones). And the audio output is a standard 3.5mm jack.

zodPod 9y ago

The Samsung Galaxy S8+ still has a headphone jack. I'm with you it's ridiculous to remove them. I'm not sure who is making these decisions but I really feel like someone needs to wake them up.

seccess 9y ago
While I agree with your opinion about removing headphone jacks, I think OP means that even phones with a headphone jack tend to have it break due to OP's heavy use of it.

Anechoic 9y ago

> I have yet to use a phone in the last 8+ years that I didn't destroy the 3.5mm jack on over the course of <1 year of running Interesting. I have a similar issue, but rather than destroying the headphone jack on the phone (iPhone 5s and SE), I've been destroying the 3.5mm connector on the headphone. Since the headphones I used ranged from $80 to $150, I got real sick of broken headphones. My solution was purchase these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZK43S4Q/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZK43S4Q/ in bulk. I get about 3-4 months out of each adapter, when it flakes out, I toss it and install the next one. So far, so good, I've gotten a 15 months out of my latest set of headphones so far.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

jdc0589 9y ago

there really isn't a perfect solution for running/jogging/etc... so far as players go...at least for me. I don't want to carry a phone to go running. My "good enough" solution was to buy a sansa clip, install rockbox, and just use that. It's only possible because I don't care about having a huge variety of music to listen to while running, so I can just outright purchase the tracks/albums I want, load them up, and enjoy running with music and basically no extra weight.

frio 9y ago
This is a space the watches are trying to fill. The Apple Watch has (from memory) 8GB of memory, can pair directly with a set of earphones, and plays music without the phone. Combined with the GPS and heart sensor, it's a pretty complete story. I doubt the price of entry is really worth it, but yeah, I hated running with my phone last year and this seems better.
sushisource 9y ago
Main problems with this for me is I do like the variety, and I don't like the overhead of having to pre-load the music. Spotify is fantastic and I want to use it while running.

sz4kerto 9y ago

Sony headphones support hidef audio through BT. They're quite all right.

dylan-m 9y ago

And it gets worse: Apple discontinued all of their iPods except the one that looks like an iPhone because they want everyone to buy their expensive watch instead. And phones still seem to get bigger every year. We're approaching a point where options here don't even exist. (There are other options, not as pretty and small but fairly good. But Apple tends to set the trend so we're basically doomed :b). I'm hoping we'll see more products like the Mighty, or maybe some Android Wear devices that aren't wristwatches (I already have a wristwatch, thank you). But seems like a faint hope. I lost my iPod Shuffle through a boardwalk last month, decided I didn't feel like crawling through a puddle full of discarded needles in 5°C to get it back, and almost regretted the decision when I discovered they are selling used on Amazon for about $170.

Moto7451 9y ago
I think it’s more likely that the iPod Touch remains because it’s a great device to let kids abuse in place of your expensive phone. The market for dedicated audio players can’t be what it once was and audiophiles have other options. The Sansa line at one point had (or still has) the same audio chip as the iPod (Classic), is cheaper, and is super well reviewed. I think people interested in dedicated players have moved onto that. As for your theory, the iPod Touch doesn’t work with the Apple Watch. No GPS/Cellular/etc makes it mostly useless as a parent device for the non-LTE watches and the LTE watch has better connectivity. https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/177304/can-you-use-the-apple-watch-with-an-ipod-touch https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/177304/can-you-use...
- click170 9y ago
  > The Sansa line at one point had (or still has) the same audio chip as the iPod (Classic), is cheaper, and is super well reviewed. I think people interested in dedicated players have moved onto that. This looks promising on the face of it but is missing a key killer-feature IMO. The reason I still use an iPod for my MP3s is for a specific feature in iTunes that I've not yet found elsewhere, I forget the name they use but I call them dynamic playlists. Most of my playlists generate themselves based on DateAdded, LastPlayed, LastSkipped, Rating, Tags and other attributes. When I add a song I give it some tags and sync my iPod, and then it will over time and after a few syncs, end up in other playlists based on how often I play it and what rating I give it. It's a feature that I very much enjoy, and feels like a significant step up from manually managing playlists. I wish I had the same for my Movie library. I've seriously been considering building my own gizmo with a Raspberry pi, an LCD screen and some scripts but that's rather unappealing aesthetically. Has anyone got an equivalent to dynamic libraries + mp3 players working without iTunes? The crux seems to be that the mp3 player needs to keep a log of what's played and when and needs to support ratings, even if the player itself doesn't update the playlists until it's synced. I'm not even huge on sound quality or big on Apple products, it's just the features I like I can't find elsewhere.

ThrowawayR2 9y ago

I've never used one myself but you could try a battery-powered Bluetooth receiver coupled with the headphones of your choice. Most claim a fairly long battery life per charge and are reasonably inexpensive. Some examples: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KXYXXK2/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KXYXXK2/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KO1JNCA/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KO1JNCA/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0154G9CYY/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0154G9CYY/

sushisource 9y ago
Hmm. The Sony one seems worth a shot. I bought a cheap shit version of one of these a while back and (surprise) it absolutely sucks. I'll research the Sony one, the other two are way too big.
- digitalengineer 9y ago
  Here is some research: https://www.fakespot.com/product/sony-sbh54-black-stereo-bluetooth-headset-b0ed04b4-055a-4e81-8e89-fae3fa865c18 https://www.fakespot.com/product/sony-sbh54-black-stereo-blu...