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Your worldview is common, but doesn't really understand where left-wing, pro-democratic socialists are coming from. Like you, we are driven by a deep mistrust o

Your worldview is common, but doesn't really understand where left-wing, pro-democratic socialists are coming from. Like you, we are driven by a deep mistrust of power. We hate absolute authority, like decentralization, and are especially interested in out of the box thinking. Right now, the box we find ourselves in is a capitalist society where capitalist ideology is completely pervasive. The most powerful and dangerous authorities are corporations and excessively rich individuals. The best hopes for decentralization lie in genuinely decentralized solutions that give power back to workers, like worker cooperatives, democratic labor unions, and political protest. What we reject is the idea that capitalism has any of the right answers here. To the left, capitalism is the primary agent of centralization of wealth and power and authority. I don't expect you to agree, but I hope you better understand where we are coming from.

pdonis 9y ago
> Like you, we are driven by a deep mistrust of power. We hate absolute authority, like decentralization, and are especially interested in out of the box thinking. > The best hopes for decentralization lie in genuinely decentralized solutions that give power back to workers, like worker cooperatives, democratic labor unions, and political protest. All of these "solutions" have been tried. They all failed at your stated goal; instead they ended up leading to enough centralized power to kill tens of millions of people. The only way to decentralize is to empower individual people. As soon as you form a group, any group, based on any interaction except mutual affection or trade, you are centralizing, whether you realize it or not. That's the hard lesson the 20th century taught us; unfortunately many people have not learned it.
- deleted 9y ago
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civilian 9y ago
Socialist governments killed tens of millions of people in the 20th century. They acquired power far more completely than any company has. Big companies come and go. They may have power, but it's temporary, and there's nothing violent when they start losing their footing. I'd rather have Amazon delivery my groceries than live in Venezuela.
- panic 9y ago
  That's why most modern socialists don't want an authoritarian government with a planned economy. As the parent comment says, > The best hopes for decentralization lie in genuinely decentralized solutions that give power back to workers, like worker cooperatives, democratic labor unions, and political protest. These are bottom-up solutions that can work just as easily in a democratic state.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  > I'd rather have Amazon delivery my groceries than live in Venezuela. This is an either-or logical fallacy, acting like the only two options are either pure capitalism or pure socialism. Many countries in the world manage to have some basics like socialized healthcare and education, yet they manage to not be hell-holes. Germany managed to enforce anti-trust legislation in their country to such an extent that Walmart left the country, yet "tens of millions of people" haven't been killed in the process. Any ideology taken to a violent extreme is bad. That includes both communism and capitalism. Market failures are real, and the increase in socialist tendencies in the US is because most people recognize that those market failures need to be corrected.

pdonis 9y ago

> Like you, we are driven by a deep mistrust of power. We hate absolute authority, like decentralization, and are especially interested in out of the box thinking. > The best hopes for decentralization lie in genuinely decentralized solutions that give power back to workers, like worker cooperatives, democratic labor unions, and political protest. All of these "solutions" have been tried. They all failed at your stated goal; instead they ended up leading to enough centralized power to kill tens of millions of people. The only way to decentralize is to empower individual people. As soon as you form a group, any group, based on any interaction except mutual affection or trade, you are centralizing, whether you realize it or not. That's the hard lesson the 20th century taught us; unfortunately many people have not learned it.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

civilian 9y ago

Socialist governments killed tens of millions of people in the 20th century. They acquired power far more completely than any company has. Big companies come and go. They may have power, but it's temporary, and there's nothing violent when they start losing their footing. I'd rather have Amazon delivery my groceries than live in Venezuela.

panic 9y ago
That's why most modern socialists don't want an authoritarian government with a planned economy. As the parent comment says, > The best hopes for decentralization lie in genuinely decentralized solutions that give power back to workers, like worker cooperatives, democratic labor unions, and political protest. These are bottom-up solutions that can work just as easily in a democratic state.
TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
> I'd rather have Amazon delivery my groceries than live in Venezuela. This is an either-or logical fallacy, acting like the only two options are either pure capitalism or pure socialism. Many countries in the world manage to have some basics like socialized healthcare and education, yet they manage to not be hell-holes. Germany managed to enforce anti-trust legislation in their country to such an extent that Walmart left the country, yet "tens of millions of people" haven't been killed in the process. Any ideology taken to a violent extreme is bad. That includes both communism and capitalism. Market failures are real, and the increase in socialist tendencies in the US is because most people recognize that those market failures need to be corrected.