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It is not a tech problem and blaming the tech industry will not solve it. Employers should not be allowed to underpay their employees, regardless of what form

It is not a tech problem and blaming the tech industry will not solve it. Employers should not be allowed to underpay their employees, regardless of what form of payment is commonly used. Blame lawmakers who refuse to raise the minimum wage and who continue allowing restaurants to pay below minimum wage because their waiters receive tips. Why do people expect tech companies to fix this problem? Tech companies did not invent tipping and tech companies did not create a system where certain professions rely on tips. Other industrialized countries are doing fine without tipping, and some of those countries still rely on cash. What do you think doormen and bartenders in those countries do?

untog 9y ago
I'm not suggesting that tech has to fix the problem, but that it should at the very least be interested in helping others solve the problem. Blame lawmakers? Absolutely. Why not actively lobby lawmakers, and work with them to change the law? > tech companies did not invent tipping and tech companies did not create a system where certain professions rely on tips. No, but they did break the existing model whereby workers received tips, without thought how for what an alternative looks like. And it happens time and time again, like enabling the gig economy without considering what happens to the benefits and job security of those forced into it. And each time the industry as a whole throws up its hands and says "society needs to fix it" rather than engaging proactively. Like I said, people resent Silicon Valley. Maybe not the majority yet, but it's on the rise. Before long Silicon Valley will replace Wall Street in many people's perception, as it helps to concentrate wealth to the haves and away from the have-nots. Those of us working in the industry ought to be concerned about that.
- betterunix2 9y ago
  A new technology can have many impacts on society. Are tech companies supposed to hold back on new ideas until every possible stakeholder has had a chance to weigh in? Is every negatively impacted stakeholder entitled to some kind of solution before new technologies are deployed? The reason the tech industry will almost certainly not wind up with the negative image that financial companies suffer with is that people actually like the things new technologies do. People prefer Orbitz to dealing with travel agents. People prefer email to postal mail. People prefer downloading to buying CDs, and they prefered CDs to vinyl, and they preferred recorded music to buying sheet music and learning how to play an instrument. Despite decades of complaints by all these various affected stakeholders, people still have a positive opinion of the tech industry, because at the end of the day they see tangible improvements in their lives.
  - untog 9y ago
    > Are tech companies supposed to hold back on new ideas until every possible stakeholder has had a chance to weigh in? I did not propose this strawman at any point. I merely said that tech companies should be actively engaged in solving the follow on problems from their creations, not that they shouldn't be allowed to create things.
    - betterunix2 9y ago
      Why should tech companies be engaged in solving every follow-on problem? That is not how a market-based society like ours works, and it was a spectacular failure when we tried that approach with railroads (the history of Amtrak and Conrail is informative). There are a few limited cases where it makes sense to force companies to deal with negative impacts of their technology -- environmental pollution comes to mind. For the most part, society simply has to adapt to change, because change is the story of human progress. Some jobs may be lost, some people may be inconvenienced, but saddling every innovator with the responsibility for those negative outcomes (yes, that is what it means to demand that they be "actively engaged" in finding the solution) will only serve to freeze our society in time.

untog 9y ago

I'm not suggesting that tech has to fix the problem, but that it should at the very least be interested in helping others solve the problem. Blame lawmakers? Absolutely. Why not actively lobby lawmakers, and work with them to change the law? > tech companies did not invent tipping and tech companies did not create a system where certain professions rely on tips. No, but they did break the existing model whereby workers received tips, without thought how for what an alternative looks like. And it happens time and time again, like enabling the gig economy without considering what happens to the benefits and job security of those forced into it. And each time the industry as a whole throws up its hands and says "society needs to fix it" rather than engaging proactively. Like I said, people resent Silicon Valley. Maybe not the majority yet, but it's on the rise. Before long Silicon Valley will replace Wall Street in many people's perception, as it helps to concentrate wealth to the haves and away from the have-nots. Those of us working in the industry ought to be concerned about that.

betterunix2 9y ago
A new technology can have many impacts on society. Are tech companies supposed to hold back on new ideas until every possible stakeholder has had a chance to weigh in? Is every negatively impacted stakeholder entitled to some kind of solution before new technologies are deployed? The reason the tech industry will almost certainly not wind up with the negative image that financial companies suffer with is that people actually like the things new technologies do. People prefer Orbitz to dealing with travel agents. People prefer email to postal mail. People prefer downloading to buying CDs, and they prefered CDs to vinyl, and they preferred recorded music to buying sheet music and learning how to play an instrument. Despite decades of complaints by all these various affected stakeholders, people still have a positive opinion of the tech industry, because at the end of the day they see tangible improvements in their lives.
- untog 9y ago
  > Are tech companies supposed to hold back on new ideas until every possible stakeholder has had a chance to weigh in? I did not propose this strawman at any point. I merely said that tech companies should be actively engaged in solving the follow on problems from their creations, not that they shouldn't be allowed to create things.
  - betterunix2 9y ago
    Why should tech companies be engaged in solving every follow-on problem? That is not how a market-based society like ours works, and it was a spectacular failure when we tried that approach with railroads (the history of Amtrak and Conrail is informative). There are a few limited cases where it makes sense to force companies to deal with negative impacts of their technology -- environmental pollution comes to mind. For the most part, society simply has to adapt to change, because change is the story of human progress. Some jobs may be lost, some people may be inconvenienced, but saddling every innovator with the responsibility for those negative outcomes (yes, that is what it means to demand that they be "actively engaged" in finding the solution) will only serve to freeze our society in time.