7 ms·

Because that would cost the companies more and they're happy to get away with paying less. It's really not a mystery.

jhpankow 9y ago
I wish there was a list of Bay Area restaurants that don't require tipping. I discovered one last Friday and look forward to returning for the good food, service, and fair wages.
- Moru 9y ago
  There are an app for everything: http://www.schystavillkor.se/ http://www.schystavillkor.se/ Sadly this one only covers Sweden but you can look up what restaurants have signed the contract with the union. This guarantees fair wages and working conditions. The law in Sweden is pretty free so there exists unions that are supposed to talk to the companies and get an agreement on what is fair both ways.
- drdeadringer 9y ago
  Would you mind sharing the name of the restaurant?
  - jhpankow 9y ago
    http://www.yayoi-us.com/california-location.html http://www.yayoi-us.com/california-location.html
    - hkmurakami 9y ago
      Ah it's the Japanese chain taking its operational playbook from HQ (I think, though it'd be interesting if hey deliberately made a decision to exclude tipping)
- santaclaus 9y ago
  I recently went to Homestead in Oakland, which includes tips. The service was top notch, despite what the include-the-tip naysayers claim will happen.
  - drb91 9y ago
    Homestead is truly excellent!
  - bunderbunder 9y ago
    I'm impressed by the pervasiveness of the belief that people won't, for the most part, try to do good work simply for the sake of taking pride in their work. It's such a remarkably pessimistic way to regard other people.
    - ggg9990 9y ago
      Or, just to keep their job! I don't take pride in my work but I make good money and I don't want to risk my job. so I do fairly high quality work.
  - asteli 9y ago
    Half Orange by Fruitvale BART notably comes to mind.
- mikez302 9y ago
  This may be helpful (anywhere in the US, not just the Bay Area): http://bit.ly/tip-free-restaurants http://bit.ly/tip-free-restaurants I found it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/EndTipping/ https://www.reddit.com/r/EndTipping/
- s0rce 9y ago
  Kebabery in Oakland is great
- stevenspasbo 9y ago
  Lanesplitter pizza claims to pay a livable wage
c0wb0yc0d3r 9y ago
In the US, employees must still be paid minimum wage. Depending on the state, an employer may count tips toward this amount. If an employee reports $0 in tips, the employer must pay them $7.25/hr. While I would like to believe that what you say is true, I find it hard to be true. I think the bigger issues are at play whether it's is the fact that minimum wages need to be adjusted, a more modern solution is needed to replace minimum wages, whether a job in question is simply suitable for a human to perform (in this case a doorman, they don't really have them where I live so I don't know their purpose), or maybe children (even adults) need to be taught better money management skills. I personally think that an area for quick improvement would be helping folks with managing their money. Anecdotally, I know people who haven't paid more than the minimum on student loans because they that they will automatically be forgiven in 20 years. On a $40k loan, they have easily squandered away a down payment on a house or money they could have otherwise put in their 401k.
- mjevans 9y ago
  I agree with most of your points. However, I'd like to start with two labor patches (in the same set). 1) Pro-rate all benefits (with 3/4ths of median 'full time' work hours as full time). 2) Eliminate that tip as part of wage 'loophole'. Tips should still be allowed, but they should be for truly exceptional things, and not a hidden cost of buying something.
  - c0wb0yc0d3r 9y ago
    2) Eliminate that tip as part of wage 'loophole'. That is interesting. As I understand it now, the way tips are factored into wages, it benefits the employee more so than the employer. Society loses because the employee is supposed to report tips so they are taxed, the employer loses because they still have to pay minimum wage, and the employee wins because they are paid minimum wage and get their tips tax free. Maybe I'm just being dense, but how would this elimination be beneficial?
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > As I understand it now, the way tips are factored into wages, it benefits the employee more so than the employer. Society loses because the employee is supposed to report tips so they are taxed, the employer loses because they still have to pay minimum wage, and the employee wins because they are paid minimum wage and get their tips tax free. Employers of workers in customarily tipped jobs can and do use tips as a performance metric, so if the employer has to top up your tips to minimum wage, it probably also means you are also losing your job. This also motivates overreporting tips.
berberous 9y ago
What about doormen buildings? Why tip them in December individually? The Board should just pay them each a bonus. The unit owners pay regardless.
- SilasX 9y ago
  I guess because it can be kept off-books and untaxed? This is typically a thing you see in high-tax state/cities.
travisp 9y ago
It's not so easy to be one of the first companies to go against standard practice. And sometimes you even get sued https://www.eater.com/2017/10/11/16458026/no-tipping-conspiracy-lawsuit-ushg-momofuku https://www.eater.com/2017/10/11/16458026/no-tipping-conspir...
notyourday 9y ago
I'm sorry.. Elevator operator ?! In 2017?! WAT?
- jdeibele 9y ago
  There was an article just a few days ago about the remaining elevators that have operators: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/nyregion/manual-elevators-operators.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/nyregion/manual-elevators...
- perseusprime11 9y ago
  until we get self driving elevators... :)
aarreedd 9y ago
It's not that it would cost companies more. It's that companies would have to charge more up front. Even if customers end up paying the same price in the end they are not thinking about the cost of the tip when ordering their food. They are just looking at the price on the menu.

I wish there was a list of Bay Area restaurants that don't require tipping. I discovered one last Friday and look forward to returning for the good food, service, and fair wages.

Moru 9y ago
There are an app for everything: http://www.schystavillkor.se/ http://www.schystavillkor.se/ Sadly this one only covers Sweden but you can look up what restaurants have signed the contract with the union. This guarantees fair wages and working conditions. The law in Sweden is pretty free so there exists unions that are supposed to talk to the companies and get an agreement on what is fair both ways.
drdeadringer 9y ago
Would you mind sharing the name of the restaurant?
- jhpankow 9y ago
  http://www.yayoi-us.com/california-location.html http://www.yayoi-us.com/california-location.html
  - hkmurakami 9y ago
    Ah it's the Japanese chain taking its operational playbook from HQ (I think, though it'd be interesting if hey deliberately made a decision to exclude tipping)
santaclaus 9y ago
I recently went to Homestead in Oakland, which includes tips. The service was top notch, despite what the include-the-tip naysayers claim will happen.
- drb91 9y ago
  Homestead is truly excellent!
- bunderbunder 9y ago
  I'm impressed by the pervasiveness of the belief that people won't, for the most part, try to do good work simply for the sake of taking pride in their work. It's such a remarkably pessimistic way to regard other people.
  - ggg9990 9y ago
    Or, just to keep their job! I don't take pride in my work but I make good money and I don't want to risk my job. so I do fairly high quality work.
- asteli 9y ago
  Half Orange by Fruitvale BART notably comes to mind.
mikez302 9y ago
This may be helpful (anywhere in the US, not just the Bay Area): http://bit.ly/tip-free-restaurants http://bit.ly/tip-free-restaurants I found it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/EndTipping/ https://www.reddit.com/r/EndTipping/
s0rce 9y ago
Kebabery in Oakland is great
stevenspasbo 9y ago
Lanesplitter pizza claims to pay a livable wage

c0wb0yc0d3r 9y ago

In the US, employees must still be paid minimum wage. Depending on the state, an employer may count tips toward this amount. If an employee reports $0 in tips, the employer must pay them $7.25/hr. While I would like to believe that what you say is true, I find it hard to be true. I think the bigger issues are at play whether it's is the fact that minimum wages need to be adjusted, a more modern solution is needed to replace minimum wages, whether a job in question is simply suitable for a human to perform (in this case a doorman, they don't really have them where I live so I don't know their purpose), or maybe children (even adults) need to be taught better money management skills. I personally think that an area for quick improvement would be helping folks with managing their money. Anecdotally, I know people who haven't paid more than the minimum on student loans because they that they will automatically be forgiven in 20 years. On a $40k loan, they have easily squandered away a down payment on a house or money they could have otherwise put in their 401k.

mjevans 9y ago
I agree with most of your points. However, I'd like to start with two labor patches (in the same set). 1) Pro-rate all benefits (with 3/4ths of median 'full time' work hours as full time). 2) Eliminate that tip as part of wage 'loophole'. Tips should still be allowed, but they should be for truly exceptional things, and not a hidden cost of buying something.
- c0wb0yc0d3r 9y ago
  2) Eliminate that tip as part of wage 'loophole'. That is interesting. As I understand it now, the way tips are factored into wages, it benefits the employee more so than the employer. Society loses because the employee is supposed to report tips so they are taxed, the employer loses because they still have to pay minimum wage, and the employee wins because they are paid minimum wage and get their tips tax free. Maybe I'm just being dense, but how would this elimination be beneficial?
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > As I understand it now, the way tips are factored into wages, it benefits the employee more so than the employer. Society loses because the employee is supposed to report tips so they are taxed, the employer loses because they still have to pay minimum wage, and the employee wins because they are paid minimum wage and get their tips tax free. Employers of workers in customarily tipped jobs can and do use tips as a performance metric, so if the employer has to top up your tips to minimum wage, it probably also means you are also losing your job. This also motivates overreporting tips.

berberous 9y ago

What about doormen buildings? Why tip them in December individually? The Board should just pay them each a bonus. The unit owners pay regardless.

SilasX 9y ago
I guess because it can be kept off-books and untaxed? This is typically a thing you see in high-tax state/cities.

travisp 9y ago

It's not so easy to be one of the first companies to go against standard practice. And sometimes you even get sued https://www.eater.com/2017/10/11/16458026/no-tipping-conspiracy-lawsuit-ushg-momofuku https://www.eater.com/2017/10/11/16458026/no-tipping-conspir...

notyourday 9y ago

I'm sorry.. Elevator operator ?! In 2017?! WAT?

jdeibele 9y ago
There was an article just a few days ago about the remaining elevators that have operators: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/nyregion/manual-elevators-operators.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/nyregion/manual-elevators...
perseusprime11 9y ago
until we get self driving elevators... :)

aarreedd 9y ago

It's not that it would cost companies more. It's that companies would have to charge more up front. Even if customers end up paying the same price in the end they are not thinking about the cost of the tip when ordering their food. They are just looking at the price on the menu.