5 ms·

Land Registry data reveals London’s secret tunnels

131 points by joosters 9y ago

dbatten 9y ago
People (myself included) seem to have an inordinate fascination with tunnels. I mean, there's a fascination with things that are dilapidated/old, and a fascination with places you're not allowed to go. But tunnels in particular take it to an even higher level. I wonder what it is about us that makes that the case?
- jameshart 9y ago
  I think there's something about the way you go into a tunnel, travel down it, and emerge somewhere else. They almost have a hint of magical matter transportation to them, ridiculous as it seems. That's what makes tunnels in particular more exciting than mere mines or caves. I can make a cave system immediately more intriguing if I tell you that if you go through the system of caves you can emerge somewhere completely different.
- PoachedSausage 9y ago
  They are amazing feats of civil engineering. I visited London recently and was riding on the Tube, most of the deep parts you cannot really see, but there are lines that are in cuttings and there the low-level foundation, plumbing and wiring of the city can be glimpsed. I sometimes wish I had become a civil engineer rather than electronic.
  - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
    London's sewers are more impressive than the Tube system. Much of the tube was built with relatively modern tunnelling technology - especially the newer lines like the Victoria and Jubilee Extension. The sewers were hand-built with late Victorian technology - i.e. brick-lined deep tunnelling - and made a huge contribution to public health. The Thames was literally full of crap until they were completed, and they made London approximately habitable, instead of the disease-infested hell hole it used to be.
    - evgen 9y ago
      In addition to dealing with London's sewage the Victorian sewer system also buried and redirected several of the rivers that ran through London. To complete the circle on this, the river Westbourne runs through the Sloane Square tube station in an large overhead pipe.
    - PoachedSausage 9y ago
      Indeed, the sewers are a marvel of Victorian civil engineering, however it is difficult to explore them without wading through Fatbergs[0]. The closest you can probably find is the South Kensington Subway[1] which links the Science Museum to South Kensington Tube station and the Woolwich and Greenwich foot tunnels[2]. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatberg [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albertopolis#Overview https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albertopolis#Overview [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolwich_foot_tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolwich_foot_tunnel
- mmcconnell1618 9y ago
  It might be partially instinct from our mammalian ancestors who survived by living underground. I think it's the same reason why mountains and oceans are so appealing to many people. They offer geographic survival advantages. We can't always express the exact reasons why we like them but it just feels right when you are there.
  - emilfihlman 9y ago
    >They offer geographic survival advantages. I felt and saw a view of a huge mountain and a synthetic view of some memories mixed in with an old train going through another one. And I felt awe at realising that's it's a survival aspect. A lot of _us_ is hardwired into what increases our survival.
stuart78 9y ago
This whole blog is interesting, glad to have been introduced to it. As an American, I love being reminded how young everything about us is. See, for example, the entry about the Duchy of Cornwall [0]: "The Duchy was created in 1337 by Edward III, as a personal endowment for his son, the Black Prince. Ever since, its lands and revenues have belonged to the male heir to the throne – in recent times, Charles, Prince of Wales." I acknowledge (and sympathize with) the author's interest in greater transparency, but I also have an appreciation for institutions that survive in this way, anachronistic and antiquated though it may be. https://whoownsengland.org/2017/03/15/what-land-does-the-duchy-of-cornwall-own/ https://whoownsengland.org/2017/03/15/what-land-does-the-duc...
- rtx 9y ago
  They survive through violence.
  - chesimov 9y ago
    Which definition of violence?
    - DanBC 9y ago
      The queen has armed active (not ceremonial) soldiers inside her home. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Guard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Guard
      - JonRB 9y ago
        Some people don't recognise that they aren't ceremonial. There are a couple of sensationalised arrest videos where somebody's trying to make a big deal out of being 'aggressed' by the Queen's Guard.
  - dhruvrrp 9y ago
    Was there an alternative that didn't require violence?
stuart78 9y ago
Also on this topic, remembered this post from a year ago collecting cutaway illustrations of the London Underground: http://londonist.com/london/transport/london-cutaways http://londonist.com/london/transport/london-cutaways
sandworm101 9y ago
Given the size of these tunnels, and London's extreme land values, we have to assume they are being used by someone. The government wouldn't let all that space go to waste. So that means there is a largeish population (100s?) of people commuting into london each morning only to disappear into these tunnels. Identifying and tracking these people would be a great open source intel project.
- discodave 9y ago
  > government wouldn't let all that space go to waste Assumptions make an ass out of you and me. That wouldn't even be the biggest waste of resources I heard about this week. Having said that, it's certainly possible/feasible that the tunnels are being used. The case against would be that these tunnels are in very sensitive areas, and so the security restrictions on any potential use would be very strict.
- stevesimmons 9y ago
  Here's a tunnel that's being used. It is an underground farm in an old air raid shelter 100 feet under Clapham High St. They have been running two or three years and are steadily expanding their fresh salad distribution through premium supermarkets and food shops: http://growing-underground.com/world-1st-subterranean-farm/ http://growing-underground.com/world-1st-subterranean-farm/
- Magnets 9y ago
  I assume 'elf and safety usually means it's expensive to actually use any of these old underground structures for anything.
- TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
  Some were planned as deep nuclear shelters for cities - and they became completely useless as soon as hydrogen bombs were developed. A full scale war would reduce central London to a series of large craters. The Whitehall tunnels also provide a handy way to avoid the rain and the public while walking between departments. So far as anyone knows, there are no permanently manned offices down there, although there may be some storage. (Obviously I'm not counting the alien base under Buckingham Palace, because that's Beyond Top Secret, as everyone knows.)
llsf 9y ago
In Paris, there are the same post-WW2 shelters. I worked in one of them owned at the time by the France Telecom. I liked it as I felt like a spy :) You entered from the street thru a small door. Then in the hall there was a guy behind a glass, asking for ID. Once verified, you could turn to the elevator. There was nothing else in this entry hall, a glass window and an elevator door. The elevator was going 7 level deep (could go to 9 if I recall, but I did not have access to lower level). -7 was weird. They had fake windows with artificial light behind. Walls with huge landscape picture. It was warm too. And kinda dead, as I was sometime the only one working at that floor, and I could not venture much as there were cameras everywhere. It was actually cool still :)
contingencies 9y ago
Interesting that there are tunnels around Hatton Garden which is a large center of the jewellery trade. No doubt some great heist plot material there!
- robin_reala 9y ago
  Presumably you’re aware of the tunnelling in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatton_Garden_safe_deposit_burglary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatton_Garden_safe_deposit_bur...
vijayr 9y ago
This blog is awesome. Some of the entries are eye opening and scary - like this one https://whoownsengland.org/2017/04/17/the-thirty-landowners-who-own-half-a-county/ https://whoownsengland.org/2017/04/17/the-thirty-landowners-... Is there anything like this for the U.S? It is crazy to see such huge amounts of land owned by a few individuals/companies.

131 points by joosters 9y ago

People (myself included) seem to have an inordinate fascination with tunnels. I mean, there's a fascination with things that are dilapidated/old, and a fascination with places you're not allowed to go. But tunnels in particular take it to an even higher level. I wonder what it is about us that makes that the case?

jameshart 9y ago
I think there's something about the way you go into a tunnel, travel down it, and emerge somewhere else. They almost have a hint of magical matter transportation to them, ridiculous as it seems. That's what makes tunnels in particular more exciting than mere mines or caves. I can make a cave system immediately more intriguing if I tell you that if you go through the system of caves you can emerge somewhere completely different.
PoachedSausage 9y ago
They are amazing feats of civil engineering. I visited London recently and was riding on the Tube, most of the deep parts you cannot really see, but there are lines that are in cuttings and there the low-level foundation, plumbing and wiring of the city can be glimpsed. I sometimes wish I had become a civil engineer rather than electronic.
- TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
  London's sewers are more impressive than the Tube system. Much of the tube was built with relatively modern tunnelling technology - especially the newer lines like the Victoria and Jubilee Extension. The sewers were hand-built with late Victorian technology - i.e. brick-lined deep tunnelling - and made a huge contribution to public health. The Thames was literally full of crap until they were completed, and they made London approximately habitable, instead of the disease-infested hell hole it used to be.
  - evgen 9y ago
    In addition to dealing with London's sewage the Victorian sewer system also buried and redirected several of the rivers that ran through London. To complete the circle on this, the river Westbourne runs through the Sloane Square tube station in an large overhead pipe.
  - PoachedSausage 9y ago
    Indeed, the sewers are a marvel of Victorian civil engineering, however it is difficult to explore them without wading through Fatbergs[0]. The closest you can probably find is the South Kensington Subway[1] which links the Science Museum to South Kensington Tube station and the Woolwich and Greenwich foot tunnels[2]. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatberg [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albertopolis#Overview https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albertopolis#Overview [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolwich_foot_tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolwich_foot_tunnel
mmcconnell1618 9y ago
It might be partially instinct from our mammalian ancestors who survived by living underground. I think it's the same reason why mountains and oceans are so appealing to many people. They offer geographic survival advantages. We can't always express the exact reasons why we like them but it just feels right when you are there.
- emilfihlman 9y ago
  >They offer geographic survival advantages. I felt and saw a view of a huge mountain and a synthetic view of some memories mixed in with an old train going through another one. And I felt awe at realising that's it's a survival aspect. A lot of _us_ is hardwired into what increases our survival.

stuart78 9y ago

This whole blog is interesting, glad to have been introduced to it. As an American, I love being reminded how young everything about us is. See, for example, the entry about the Duchy of Cornwall [0]: "The Duchy was created in 1337 by Edward III, as a personal endowment for his son, the Black Prince. Ever since, its lands and revenues have belonged to the male heir to the throne – in recent times, Charles, Prince of Wales." I acknowledge (and sympathize with) the author's interest in greater transparency, but I also have an appreciation for institutions that survive in this way, anachronistic and antiquated though it may be. https://whoownsengland.org/2017/03/15/what-land-does-the-duchy-of-cornwall-own/ https://whoownsengland.org/2017/03/15/what-land-does-the-duc...

rtx 9y ago
They survive through violence.
- chesimov 9y ago
  Which definition of violence?
  - DanBC 9y ago
    The queen has armed active (not ceremonial) soldiers inside her home. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Guard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Guard
    - JonRB 9y ago
      Some people don't recognise that they aren't ceremonial. There are a couple of sensationalised arrest videos where somebody's trying to make a big deal out of being 'aggressed' by the Queen's Guard.
- dhruvrrp 9y ago
  Was there an alternative that didn't require violence?

stuart78 9y ago

Also on this topic, remembered this post from a year ago collecting cutaway illustrations of the London Underground: http://londonist.com/london/transport/london-cutaways http://londonist.com/london/transport/london-cutaways

sandworm101 9y ago

Given the size of these tunnels, and London's extreme land values, we have to assume they are being used by someone. The government wouldn't let all that space go to waste. So that means there is a largeish population (100s?) of people commuting into london each morning only to disappear into these tunnels. Identifying and tracking these people would be a great open source intel project.

discodave 9y ago
> government wouldn't let all that space go to waste Assumptions make an ass out of you and me. That wouldn't even be the biggest waste of resources I heard about this week. Having said that, it's certainly possible/feasible that the tunnels are being used. The case against would be that these tunnels are in very sensitive areas, and so the security restrictions on any potential use would be very strict.
stevesimmons 9y ago
Here's a tunnel that's being used. It is an underground farm in an old air raid shelter 100 feet under Clapham High St. They have been running two or three years and are steadily expanding their fresh salad distribution through premium supermarkets and food shops: http://growing-underground.com/world-1st-subterranean-farm/ http://growing-underground.com/world-1st-subterranean-farm/
Magnets 9y ago
I assume 'elf and safety usually means it's expensive to actually use any of these old underground structures for anything.
TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
Some were planned as deep nuclear shelters for cities - and they became completely useless as soon as hydrogen bombs were developed. A full scale war would reduce central London to a series of large craters. The Whitehall tunnels also provide a handy way to avoid the rain and the public while walking between departments. So far as anyone knows, there are no permanently manned offices down there, although there may be some storage. (Obviously I'm not counting the alien base under Buckingham Palace, because that's Beyond Top Secret, as everyone knows.)

llsf 9y ago

In Paris, there are the same post-WW2 shelters. I worked in one of them owned at the time by the France Telecom. I liked it as I felt like a spy :) You entered from the street thru a small door. Then in the hall there was a guy behind a glass, asking for ID. Once verified, you could turn to the elevator. There was nothing else in this entry hall, a glass window and an elevator door. The elevator was going 7 level deep (could go to 9 if I recall, but I did not have access to lower level). -7 was weird. They had fake windows with artificial light behind. Walls with huge landscape picture. It was warm too. And kinda dead, as I was sometime the only one working at that floor, and I could not venture much as there were cameras everywhere. It was actually cool still :)

contingencies 9y ago

Interesting that there are tunnels around Hatton Garden which is a large center of the jewellery trade. No doubt some great heist plot material there!

robin_reala 9y ago
Presumably you’re aware of the tunnelling in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatton_Garden_safe_deposit_burglary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatton_Garden_safe_deposit_bur...

vijayr 9y ago

This blog is awesome. Some of the entries are eye opening and scary - like this one https://whoownsengland.org/2017/04/17/the-thirty-landowners-who-own-half-a-county/ https://whoownsengland.org/2017/04/17/the-thirty-landowners-... Is there anything like this for the U.S? It is crazy to see such huge amounts of land owned by a few individuals/companies.