3 ms·

I have to say, I can observe some mixed standards in this regard: "Deer eat saplings" - "Kill the deer!" "Wolves eat livestock" - "Don't shoot, get a fence."

wirrbel 9y ago
Get a shepherd dog might be the better option. I guess you can always argue that the ecosystem used to have wolves (and elks) in Germany. So the restauration is I think a good thing. The only issue I found with this wish is that consequently, probably lions should be brought back to southern europe, etc.
- swerner 9y ago
  The question is, is the current landscape in Germany an adequate habitat for a predator that claims large territories? Last time there was a native wolf population in Germany, there was no Autobahn, no large corn fields for bioethanol and ground-breeders had plenty of cover in the shrubs between small parcels of land. The drastic changes in land use are one of the reasons Germany now has a growing wild boar population again, where in the 1940s large areas had no boar at all. Boar hunting is more effective than ever (night vision, cameras, etc) but can't offset the exploding food supply. When wolves return, we're not going to get some romantic version of fairy tale wild nature back - Germany doesn't have large enough preservation areas for that to happen[1]. Anyone who claims to be able to predict the future of wolf in Germany is just full of it - both sides of the debate. [1]The Dutch Oostvaardersplassen is one example of what can happen when you naively try to turn tiny areas into a "natural wilderness habitat".
  - wirrbel 9y ago
    what specifically is your issue with Oostvaardersplassen?
    - swerner 9y ago
      It demonstrates how going from cultured land to a natural reserve doesn't necessarily lead to a balanced ecosystem. There you have a herbivore population that requires culling in order to prevent mass starvation from exhausting the food supply. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oostvaardersplassen#Natural_processes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oostvaardersplassen#Natural_pr... In the absence of natural predators the rangers shoot animals that are unlikely to survive. It is quite common for 30 to 60 per cent of the population to be killed in this way. After a cull, the vegetation has a chance to recover and this will get the first natural afforestation of the area under way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tofJFxKOVao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tofJFxKOVao

wirrbel 9y ago

Get a shepherd dog might be the better option. I guess you can always argue that the ecosystem used to have wolves (and elks) in Germany. So the restauration is I think a good thing. The only issue I found with this wish is that consequently, probably lions should be brought back to southern europe, etc.

swerner 9y ago
The question is, is the current landscape in Germany an adequate habitat for a predator that claims large territories? Last time there was a native wolf population in Germany, there was no Autobahn, no large corn fields for bioethanol and ground-breeders had plenty of cover in the shrubs between small parcels of land. The drastic changes in land use are one of the reasons Germany now has a growing wild boar population again, where in the 1940s large areas had no boar at all. Boar hunting is more effective than ever (night vision, cameras, etc) but can't offset the exploding food supply. When wolves return, we're not going to get some romantic version of fairy tale wild nature back - Germany doesn't have large enough preservation areas for that to happen[1]. Anyone who claims to be able to predict the future of wolf in Germany is just full of it - both sides of the debate. [1]The Dutch Oostvaardersplassen is one example of what can happen when you naively try to turn tiny areas into a "natural wilderness habitat".
- wirrbel 9y ago
  what specifically is your issue with Oostvaardersplassen?
  - swerner 9y ago
    It demonstrates how going from cultured land to a natural reserve doesn't necessarily lead to a balanced ecosystem. There you have a herbivore population that requires culling in order to prevent mass starvation from exhausting the food supply. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oostvaardersplassen#Natural_processes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oostvaardersplassen#Natural_pr... In the absence of natural predators the rangers shoot animals that are unlikely to survive. It is quite common for 30 to 60 per cent of the population to be killed in this way. After a cull, the vegetation has a chance to recover and this will get the first natural afforestation of the area under way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tofJFxKOVao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tofJFxKOVao