4 ms·

oh, no, we're paying less for things. help! the massive housing bubble and it inflationary effects HAD to collapse. those who waited out the insanity deserve

oh, no, we're paying less for things. help! the massive housing bubble and it inflationary effects HAD to collapse. those who waited out the insanity deserve lower prices. those who were foolish do not deserve to have the rest of us prop up their property values, although our government is foolishly backing every bad bet out there.

itsgoats 16y ago
I'd like to say thank you, stretchwithme, for all of us who saved enough to buy a house, responsibly, in what just happened to be the middle of last decade and now have cause to sell (moving jobs because the economy stinks). We so deserve to seriously be screwed over because of our timing. Thank you US government. Thank you stretchwithme, your sentiments help the situation tremendously. Surprisingly, there were actually many people who bought a house in 2003-2005 because they had a down payment at that time and they had jobs and they bought what they could afford.
- startuprules 16y ago
  Should we feel sorry for you because you don't have the patience to wait? Because you weren't smart enough to realize that maybe housing prices doubling in 1-2 years don't equate? Did someone make you buy a house at gunpoint?
- rdtsc 16y ago
  > who saved enough to buy a house, If you saved enough to buy a house then live in your house. If you're moving around then don't buy houses. They are places to live. Your problem is that you want them to be investment vehicles to increase your wealth. Well, if they are investment vehicles then you also have to accept that you will make a bad bet and will lose in value. You want your cake and eat it too. It is like stock investors crying that Intel shares lost value. Well, then they shouldn't have invested in Intel, they should have put their money in a savings account.
- istari 16y ago
  You seem to think because you had a down payment, had a job, bought a house you could afford, you "deserve" to be screwed over less by a falling housing market, because you were "responsible". Just the opposite! The migrant field worker who got a 0% down interest only loan on a 500K house is far less "deserving" of the screw than you, because he has no money to be screwed out of.
  - stretchwithme 16y ago
    sorry, I didn't mean to be insensitive. you don't deserve this mess, but we own the risks we take on. There's simply no other way to run a society. When the dot com bubble burst and I lost a lot of paper profits, that was unfortunate and unforeseen and I was responsible for the choices that got me there. It would have been nice if someone sent me a check for my losses, but how could the government do such a thing without making someone more responsible pay for my mistakes? And we don't deserve to have our government doing this to us, again and again, but we own that until we make it clear that they should stop. Its not China's responsibility or Saudi Arabia's. It ours.
WiseWeasel 16y ago
Deflation also pushes people with large home mortgages closer to the brink, as their debt increases in value, and their banks feel pressure to lower their risk exposure by refusing to refinance or renew loans and pushing loan holders to pay down their debts. It has the potential of making the housing crisis much worse for everyone. That's not even getting into what it would do to the commercial real estate market, which is currently in a tailspin.
- rdtsc 16y ago
  > Deflation also pushes people with large home mortgages closer to the brink ... > thas the potential of making the housing crisis much worse for everyone. The housing "crisis" happened because people were getting large home mortgages. There shouldn't be people with large home mortgages. I interpret "large" here as bigger than they can chew. If they can't afford their home, they can't afford their home -- time to scale down to a small condo or start renting. Why are we proping up people with large home mortgages and rewarding their stupid buying decisions?
  - WiseWeasel 16y ago
    Because they were unfortunately quite common, and not propping them up would put a large portion of the population out on the street, and cause a further surplus of homes on the market, driving values down further in a vicious cycle. The point is they could afford their home when banks lent them money at reasonable rates, when the bank assumed they could always resell the home and get their money back, but when the current appraised value of the homes dropped, banks were left holding much riskier debt, and charging much higher rates to existing customers with variable-rate loans, as well as those due for renewal. This has trapped a huge number of homeowners. The situation is even more troublesome in commercial real estate, as loans are for relatively short periods, after which they must be renegotiated based on current value, against a backdrop of commercial leases for tenants rapidly dropping in many cities. It's the scale of the crisis on so many fronts which has such potential for devastation of the entire economy.

itsgoats 16y ago

I'd like to say thank you, stretchwithme, for all of us who saved enough to buy a house, responsibly, in what just happened to be the middle of last decade and now have cause to sell (moving jobs because the economy stinks). We so deserve to seriously be screwed over because of our timing. Thank you US government. Thank you stretchwithme, your sentiments help the situation tremendously. Surprisingly, there were actually many people who bought a house in 2003-2005 because they had a down payment at that time and they had jobs and they bought what they could afford.

startuprules 16y ago
Should we feel sorry for you because you don't have the patience to wait? Because you weren't smart enough to realize that maybe housing prices doubling in 1-2 years don't equate? Did someone make you buy a house at gunpoint?
rdtsc 16y ago
> who saved enough to buy a house, If you saved enough to buy a house then live in your house. If you're moving around then don't buy houses. They are places to live. Your problem is that you want them to be investment vehicles to increase your wealth. Well, if they are investment vehicles then you also have to accept that you will make a bad bet and will lose in value. You want your cake and eat it too. It is like stock investors crying that Intel shares lost value. Well, then they shouldn't have invested in Intel, they should have put their money in a savings account.
istari 16y ago
You seem to think because you had a down payment, had a job, bought a house you could afford, you "deserve" to be screwed over less by a falling housing market, because you were "responsible". Just the opposite! The migrant field worker who got a 0% down interest only loan on a 500K house is far less "deserving" of the screw than you, because he has no money to be screwed out of.
- stretchwithme 16y ago
  sorry, I didn't mean to be insensitive. you don't deserve this mess, but we own the risks we take on. There's simply no other way to run a society. When the dot com bubble burst and I lost a lot of paper profits, that was unfortunate and unforeseen and I was responsible for the choices that got me there. It would have been nice if someone sent me a check for my losses, but how could the government do such a thing without making someone more responsible pay for my mistakes? And we don't deserve to have our government doing this to us, again and again, but we own that until we make it clear that they should stop. Its not China's responsibility or Saudi Arabia's. It ours.

WiseWeasel 16y ago

Deflation also pushes people with large home mortgages closer to the brink, as their debt increases in value, and their banks feel pressure to lower their risk exposure by refusing to refinance or renew loans and pushing loan holders to pay down their debts. It has the potential of making the housing crisis much worse for everyone. That's not even getting into what it would do to the commercial real estate market, which is currently in a tailspin.

rdtsc 16y ago
> Deflation also pushes people with large home mortgages closer to the brink ... > thas the potential of making the housing crisis much worse for everyone. The housing "crisis" happened because people were getting large home mortgages. There shouldn't be people with large home mortgages. I interpret "large" here as bigger than they can chew. If they can't afford their home, they can't afford their home -- time to scale down to a small condo or start renting. Why are we proping up people with large home mortgages and rewarding their stupid buying decisions?
- WiseWeasel 16y ago
  Because they were unfortunately quite common, and not propping them up would put a large portion of the population out on the street, and cause a further surplus of homes on the market, driving values down further in a vicious cycle. The point is they could afford their home when banks lent them money at reasonable rates, when the bank assumed they could always resell the home and get their money back, but when the current appraised value of the homes dropped, banks were left holding much riskier debt, and charging much higher rates to existing customers with variable-rate loans, as well as those due for renewal. This has trapped a huge number of homeowners. The situation is even more troublesome in commercial real estate, as loans are for relatively short periods, after which they must be renegotiated based on current value, against a backdrop of commercial leases for tenants rapidly dropping in many cities. It's the scale of the crisis on so many fronts which has such potential for devastation of the entire economy.