5 ms·

As Venezuela Collapses, Children Are Dying of Hunger

42 points by iKenshu 9y ago

frabbit 9y ago
The NYT crying crocodile tears over dying children is a bit hard to take. Looks like the USA's determined to continue carrying out its coup after all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A...
- eternalban 9y ago
  I don't read that rag anymore. Have they shed any tears for the children of Yemen?
  - Mikeb85 9y ago
    Of course not. No one cares about Yemen because atrocities are being carried out by a US ally. It's plain to see when and where the media generates outrage.
    - weerd 9y ago
      NYT has covered the horrors in Yemen: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/22/world/middleeast/yemen-crimes-against-humanity.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/22/world/middleeast/yemen-cr... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/opinion/saudi-arabia-yemen-famine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/opinion/saudi-arabia-yeme... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/world/middleeast/yemen-saudi-airstrike.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/world/middleeast/yemen-sa... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/opinion/yemen-war-unconstitutional.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/opinion/yemen-war-unconst...
seibelj 9y ago
This made me so unbelievably sad. A country that was prosperous, educated, full of natural resources, gets destroyed by a corrupt and despicable political system. There is no reason this should happen.
eugenerg 9y ago
Quoting someone else: "NY Times major piece on starvation in Venezuela. Carefully avoids mentioning socialism. All the problems are passive voice ("as the economy collapsed," "as hyperinflation appeared") or exogenous ("oil prices collapsed"). Walter Duranty lives."
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  It was government corruption, not socialism that led to the current crisis. Socialistic Scandinavia countries that have sovereign wealth funds from their oil extraction prosper.
  - spraak 9y ago
    Genuinely curious and not trying to troll: how successful would Scandinavian socialism be without oil?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - jalk 9y ago
      Norway's is the only Scandinavia country with substantial amounts oil. Taxation is largely what is funding the welfare state.
      - candiodari 9y ago
        That may be true, but all 3 countries are tiny with a large natural resource sector (so is Russia, incidentally, except on the "tiny" front). None depend on manufacturing or resources, despite all their European neighbors doing just that. Of course, sure, only 1 has a real oil sector. Like the middle eastern countries, though, Norway is somewhat guilty of sabotaging their own agricultural sector to appease political interests (ie. the greens), and compensating large amounts of importing from their immediate neighbors.
  - X86BSD 9y ago
thriftwy 9y ago
I used to think that economic collapse after the fall of Soviet communism was the worst outcome possible. Now it is apparent that crash with communism intact is much worse.
X86BSD 9y ago
Socialism ends this way every. Single. Time. “If only socialism was implemented correctly for a change!” The snowflakes chant. Ignoring history. Implementing more and more socialist programs at home. Sigh.
- oculusthrift 9y ago
  ah yes. we all know sweden and switzerland and norway are about to collapse and have people die of starvation on the streets.
  - madengr 9y ago
    Thanks to western democratic principles. You have conveniently ignored all their neighbors in the east block.
    - jszymborski 9y ago
      You've named the problem though I don't think you can see it yourself. No matter where you are on a continuum of socialist and capitalist policies, a fascist dictator will always lead to abuses of power. Strong democratic principles do their best to mitigate and limit that, with varying degrees of success. Venezuela did not have a strong democratic system. Military force was used to coerce elections, the democratic process to remove Maduro was initiated, completed successfully, and ignored entirely. The lesson here is that this can happen to any country when our democratic systems are weakened. I'd argue that the United States has been on a glacial path to this for quite some time.
  - tomohawk 9y ago
    Since socialism is so successful, maybe they should nationalize food production and distribution too? It's gotta be better than using a capitalistic market economy for that, right?
  - holydude 9y ago
    Except these countries are capitalist with a pinch of socialism here and there. And it is not all perfect over there. Besides their companies are often involved in corruption scandals wherever they operate. I call them hypocritical social democrats :-)
detcader 9y ago
As Yemen Collapses, NYT Publishes Saudi Arabia Propaganda
JonasJSchreiber 9y ago
That was so disheartening. Folks really need to jump off that sinking ship - emigrate - or Maduro needs to be ousted.
- vhogemann 9y ago
  Already happening, thousands of Venezuelans are migrating to Brazil. Some towns near the borders are already having trouble to manage accommodating so many families. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/hungry-venezuelans-flood-brazilian-towns-as-threat-of-mass-migration-looms/2017/01/01/39f85822-c6d1-11e6-acda-59924caa2450_story.html?utm_term=.c828311f41f6 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/hungry-ven...
greywolf 9y ago
the fact venezuela is sitting in so much oil is what makes this more absurd and obscene. socialism with the marxist component can only degenerate into kaos and despair.
andrenth 9y ago
“The Venezuelan government knows, but won’t admit it.” The NY Times cheered for the socialist regime, but won’t admit it.
- pmarreck 9y ago
  Evidence?
pmarreck 9y ago
I don't know why this is flagged, but I do see a lot of hot air about socialism in here without much pointing to evidence
candiodari 9y ago
No worries, the "great hope of socialists worldwide" is quite safe. Just look at the pictures ! http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/06/lifestyles_of_rich_and_chavista_venezuelas_plutocrats_finally_draw_scrutiny.html http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/06/lifestyles_of_ri... Luckily, after a decade of singing the praises of Chavez, Maduro and "the Bolivarian revolution" the left is well on the way to "explain why", once again, socialist interventionism has failed yet again. You see, Venezuela isn't, and never was, nor ever tried to be socialist. It absolutely is not a case of, yet again, that socialists are just like everybody else, and cannot be trusted with the power they want, and therefore the decentralization of power that the right wants is still horridly bad. That's not it. You see, it's a conspiracy against a "left-leaning" government by "capitalists". Refusing to sell everything one has at below cost prices, clearly, in reality, is a sustainable and profitable business plan that they're refusing to adopt only because they hate socialists (sorry, the "left-leaners" of the Venezualan government, not socialists, sorry, sorry). (linked from r/socialism) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_JhRVlIR-c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_JhRVlIR-c https://www.socialistalternative.org/tag/nicolas-maduro/ https://www.socialistalternative.org/tag/nicolas-maduro/ But no worries ! This is all, and I do mean ALL of it, Trump's fault: https://reddit.com/r/socialism https://reddit.com/r/socialism

42 points by iKenshu 9y ago

The NYT crying crocodile tears over dying children is a bit hard to take. Looks like the USA's determined to continue carrying out its coup after all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A...

eternalban 9y ago
I don't read that rag anymore. Have they shed any tears for the children of Yemen?
- Mikeb85 9y ago
  Of course not. No one cares about Yemen because atrocities are being carried out by a US ally. It's plain to see when and where the media generates outrage.
  - weerd 9y ago
    NYT has covered the horrors in Yemen: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/22/world/middleeast/yemen-crimes-against-humanity.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/22/world/middleeast/yemen-cr... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/opinion/saudi-arabia-yemen-famine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/opinion/saudi-arabia-yeme... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/world/middleeast/yemen-saudi-airstrike.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/world/middleeast/yemen-sa... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/opinion/yemen-war-unconstitutional.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/opinion/yemen-war-unconst...

seibelj 9y ago

This made me so unbelievably sad. A country that was prosperous, educated, full of natural resources, gets destroyed by a corrupt and despicable political system. There is no reason this should happen.

eugenerg 9y ago

Quoting someone else: "NY Times major piece on starvation in Venezuela. Carefully avoids mentioning socialism. All the problems are passive voice ("as the economy collapsed," "as hyperinflation appeared") or exogenous ("oil prices collapsed"). Walter Duranty lives."

toomuchtodo 9y ago
It was government corruption, not socialism that led to the current crisis. Socialistic Scandinavia countries that have sovereign wealth funds from their oil extraction prosper.
- spraak 9y ago
  Genuinely curious and not trying to troll: how successful would Scandinavian socialism be without oil?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - jalk 9y ago
    Norway's is the only Scandinavia country with substantial amounts oil. Taxation is largely what is funding the welfare state.
    - candiodari 9y ago
      That may be true, but all 3 countries are tiny with a large natural resource sector (so is Russia, incidentally, except on the "tiny" front). None depend on manufacturing or resources, despite all their European neighbors doing just that. Of course, sure, only 1 has a real oil sector. Like the middle eastern countries, though, Norway is somewhat guilty of sabotaging their own agricultural sector to appease political interests (ie. the greens), and compensating large amounts of importing from their immediate neighbors.
- X86BSD 9y ago

thriftwy 9y ago

I used to think that economic collapse after the fall of Soviet communism was the worst outcome possible. Now it is apparent that crash with communism intact is much worse.

X86BSD 9y ago

Socialism ends this way every. Single. Time. “If only socialism was implemented correctly for a change!” The snowflakes chant. Ignoring history. Implementing more and more socialist programs at home. Sigh.

oculusthrift 9y ago
ah yes. we all know sweden and switzerland and norway are about to collapse and have people die of starvation on the streets.
- madengr 9y ago
  Thanks to western democratic principles. You have conveniently ignored all their neighbors in the east block.
  - jszymborski 9y ago
    You've named the problem though I don't think you can see it yourself. No matter where you are on a continuum of socialist and capitalist policies, a fascist dictator will always lead to abuses of power. Strong democratic principles do their best to mitigate and limit that, with varying degrees of success. Venezuela did not have a strong democratic system. Military force was used to coerce elections, the democratic process to remove Maduro was initiated, completed successfully, and ignored entirely. The lesson here is that this can happen to any country when our democratic systems are weakened. I'd argue that the United States has been on a glacial path to this for quite some time.
- tomohawk 9y ago
  Since socialism is so successful, maybe they should nationalize food production and distribution too? It's gotta be better than using a capitalistic market economy for that, right?
- holydude 9y ago
  Except these countries are capitalist with a pinch of socialism here and there. And it is not all perfect over there. Besides their companies are often involved in corruption scandals wherever they operate. I call them hypocritical social democrats :-)

detcader 9y ago

As Yemen Collapses, NYT Publishes Saudi Arabia Propaganda

JonasJSchreiber 9y ago

That was so disheartening. Folks really need to jump off that sinking ship - emigrate - or Maduro needs to be ousted.

vhogemann 9y ago
Already happening, thousands of Venezuelans are migrating to Brazil. Some towns near the borders are already having trouble to manage accommodating so many families. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/hungry-venezuelans-flood-brazilian-towns-as-threat-of-mass-migration-looms/2017/01/01/39f85822-c6d1-11e6-acda-59924caa2450_story.html?utm_term=.c828311f41f6 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/hungry-ven...

greywolf 9y ago

the fact venezuela is sitting in so much oil is what makes this more absurd and obscene. socialism with the marxist component can only degenerate into kaos and despair.

andrenth 9y ago

“The Venezuelan government knows, but won’t admit it.” The NY Times cheered for the socialist regime, but won’t admit it.

pmarreck 9y ago
Evidence?

pmarreck 9y ago

I don't know why this is flagged, but I do see a lot of hot air about socialism in here without much pointing to evidence

candiodari 9y ago

No worries, the "great hope of socialists worldwide" is quite safe. Just look at the pictures ! http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/06/lifestyles_of_rich_and_chavista_venezuelas_plutocrats_finally_draw_scrutiny.html http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/06/lifestyles_of_ri... Luckily, after a decade of singing the praises of Chavez, Maduro and "the Bolivarian revolution" the left is well on the way to "explain why", once again, socialist interventionism has failed yet again. You see, Venezuela isn't, and never was, nor ever tried to be socialist. It absolutely is not a case of, yet again, that socialists are just like everybody else, and cannot be trusted with the power they want, and therefore the decentralization of power that the right wants is still horridly bad. That's not it. You see, it's a conspiracy against a "left-leaning" government by "capitalists". Refusing to sell everything one has at below cost prices, clearly, in reality, is a sustainable and profitable business plan that they're refusing to adopt only because they hate socialists (sorry, the "left-leaners" of the Venezualan government, not socialists, sorry, sorry). (linked from r/socialism) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_JhRVlIR-c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_JhRVlIR-c https://www.socialistalternative.org/tag/nicolas-maduro/ https://www.socialistalternative.org/tag/nicolas-maduro/ But no worries ! This is all, and I do mean ALL of it, Trump's fault: https://reddit.com/r/socialism https://reddit.com/r/socialism