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> The point was very clear that I was referring to the > common way html is consumed The point was not clear at all. And calling various pieces HTML does not

> The point was very clear that I was referring to the > common way html is consumed The point was not clear at all. And calling various pieces HTML does not help a bit. > for the record, I've written and deployed dozens of web apps. > And I am proficient in CSS and SQL and all of that I have seen people doing web apps for the big money without any understanding what they were doing. Using tables for layout and class names like "leftCol" really show neither proficiency nor competence with markup. > If anything, the implication is to vastly simplify the browser. That's frequent: request for a change most often comes from those who don't really understand the thing they want to change.

DanielBMarkham 16y ago
This is very easily settled. Explain to me what you know that I do not that will change my opinion. Simply belittling me doesn't help very much. Doesn't phase me a bit, makes you look like a jerk, and advances the discussion nowhere. Make a case that there is some piece of the stack that somehow invalidates the claim made in the essay. I respond here (against my better judgment) because I posted this on HN to incite a discussion about technology. Not get in some pissing match over how smart I or somebody else might be. So enough with the ad hominem. Do us both a favor. Do us all a favor. Explain why the essay is misguided. Make a case.
- lhorie 16y ago
  >> One of the commenters on my blog said that I obviously didn't know anything about html Just for the record, I don't doubt your programming skills, I was just saying that there's a rather fundamental difference between the need for HTML vs the need for, as you call them, "jumping bunnies". I completely agree that distractions are becoming a real part of the work environment because of the ubiquitous nature of the web, but, when you ask "But who's job requires a hyperlink?", well, mine, for one, does a lot. And FWIW, they're pretty important to just about anyone who uses an intranet system for work. Imho, the how-do-we-keep-people-away-from-facebook-during-work problem isn't really a technology one.
  - DanielBMarkham 16y ago
    Could you edit this to say what kind of job you have? I specifically exclude certain types of work. Did I miss something? Or are you agreeing with me? And this isn't about keeping the workers away from FB (although you could spin it that way) The point is much more about the extremes of simplicity. What is the absolutely most simple thing that most folks would need to do their jobs.
    - lhorie 16y ago
      >> What is the absolutely most simple thing that most folks would need to do their jobs. I'd say pencil and paper, but who thinks that's a good idea these days? As far as forms go, the Microsoft stack is pretty much laser-focused on data entry/display apps, which I guess is what you're focusing on. So technically, you can use IIS and deploy custom built desktop clients today if you wanted to. Of course, there are pros and cons and I'm sure you already know what the arguments are. (btw, since you asked, I'm a web developer)

DanielBMarkham 16y ago

This is very easily settled. Explain to me what you know that I do not that will change my opinion. Simply belittling me doesn't help very much. Doesn't phase me a bit, makes you look like a jerk, and advances the discussion nowhere. Make a case that there is some piece of the stack that somehow invalidates the claim made in the essay. I respond here (against my better judgment) because I posted this on HN to incite a discussion about technology. Not get in some pissing match over how smart I or somebody else might be. So enough with the ad hominem. Do us both a favor. Do us all a favor. Explain why the essay is misguided. Make a case.

lhorie 16y ago
>> One of the commenters on my blog said that I obviously didn't know anything about html Just for the record, I don't doubt your programming skills, I was just saying that there's a rather fundamental difference between the need for HTML vs the need for, as you call them, "jumping bunnies". I completely agree that distractions are becoming a real part of the work environment because of the ubiquitous nature of the web, but, when you ask "But who's job requires a hyperlink?", well, mine, for one, does a lot. And FWIW, they're pretty important to just about anyone who uses an intranet system for work. Imho, the how-do-we-keep-people-away-from-facebook-during-work problem isn't really a technology one.
- DanielBMarkham 16y ago
  Could you edit this to say what kind of job you have? I specifically exclude certain types of work. Did I miss something? Or are you agreeing with me? And this isn't about keeping the workers away from FB (although you could spin it that way) The point is much more about the extremes of simplicity. What is the absolutely most simple thing that most folks would need to do their jobs.
  - lhorie 16y ago
    >> What is the absolutely most simple thing that most folks would need to do their jobs. I'd say pencil and paper, but who thinks that's a good idea these days? As far as forms go, the Microsoft stack is pretty much laser-focused on data entry/display apps, which I guess is what you're focusing on. So technically, you can use IIS and deploy custom built desktop clients today if you wanted to. Of course, there are pros and cons and I'm sure you already know what the arguments are. (btw, since you asked, I'm a web developer)