8 ms·

This is 20 years old, but there is something weird about Japanese crime statistics. They might not be as good as much of a low crime society as commonly stated:

This is 20 years old, but there is something weird about Japanese crime statistics. They might not be as good as much of a low crime society as commonly stated: http://sci-hub.la/10.2307/29766810 http://sci-hub.la/10.2307/29766810 (Is Japan Exceptional? Reconsidering Japanese Crime Rates)

throwaway613834 9y ago
This is from... 1994? How relevant is it to 2017?
- Retric 9y ago
  These are the kind of things that don't change quickly. 100 years ago Chicago was a corrupt city, and today it's _.
taneq 9y ago
This is purely anecdotal but my sister lived in Japan for many years, and she tells me that the policing there is very... uneven, I guess you'd describe it. The police won't get too involved in anything that's not a sure bet to be solved (eg. unexpected deaths are very likely to be written off as suicide) but on the flip side, once they accuse you of something the conviction rate is near 100%. Also if you get a speeding ticket you have to write an apology letter saying how sorry you are, as well as pay the fine.
- sandworm101 9y ago
  That isnt much higher than the US conviction rate if 95+. There are a few US counties that havent heard "not guilty" for over a decade.
  - stupidcar 9y ago
    A well-functioning criminal justice system should always have a high conviction rate, because part of the police and state prosecution service's job is to ensure that they only bring charges and fight cases they think they can win. Given they're experts in criminal prosecution, you would expect them to get it right 90-95% of the time. But there's still a lot of variation in how you get to that situation. E.g. how willing are the police to investigate cases that have a low chance of conviction? How willing are they to coerce confessions or fabricate evidence? Is sentencing and plea-bargaining designed to encourage early guilty pleas regardless of innocence? At trial, how willing are judges to lead juries towards a guilty verdict? These kind of issues are at play in every country's criminal justice system, but, for a modern democracy, Japan seems to have a particularly pervasive culture of police intimidation and coercion.
    - ransom1538 9y ago
      Plea-bargaining is totally insane. Quick example, you own a gun in your Florida home. Unbeknownst to you, your (idiot) cousin smokes a joint in the driveway before leaving and leaves joint on your table. Neighbors call police, they enter your home (based on smell) and find a gun and a joint. You are looking at 10 YEARS in federal jail [i] as a prohibited gun owner, a few months in county (for the joint), possibly some time in state prison for child endangerment (kids were home), and the CPS took your kids that day. IT DOES NOT MATTER if your are innocent or guilty you will do a plea deal. No jury for you. US prosecutors rely on extremely harsh possible sentences to bully innocent defendants into jail. https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-ut/legacy/2013/06/03/guncard.pdf https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-ut/legacy/2...
      - SilasX 9y ago
        I don’t get how you see plea bargaining as the evil thing in that scenario. To me, the shock of that scenario comes from the extremely harsh penalties, often for crimes that can stem from negligence. If you believed the possible punishment were indeed proportional to the crime, would you still be outraged at plea bargaining? And would the same logic apply to any variance reduction strategy (like insurance) or just this one?
        mcny 9y ago
        > If you believed the possible punishment were indeed proportional to the crime, would you still be outraged at plea bargaining? And would the same logic apply to any variance reduction strategy (like insurance) or just this one? You mean if there was a fine of $1 per domain (per year?) as opposed to possible felony under CFAA to scrape public documents on the Internet? I don't want to get into moral nihilism or whatever we call it but what is a crime? Why are some acts criminal? What makes them different from a civil suit between two parties? Sorry if I sound insane. I may be but the cause is just. Help abolish the CFAA https://www.eff.org/issues/cfaa https://www.eff.org/issues/cfaa
        ransom1538 9y ago
        "I don’t get how you see plea bargaining as the evil thing in that scenario." Because you don't get one of the fundamental constitutional rights our country was founded on: The right to a jury. Prosecutors should be forced to face a jury.
- kleiba 9y ago
  For those interested in this, there is a very good Japanese movie whose English title is "I just didn't do it". "Based on a true story, the film focuses on the story of a young man charged with groping on a train. Following the events depicted in the film, he was confirmed innocent and saved from his effective imprisonment after a five-year legal battle." [1] You'll find in this movie exactly what the parent describes, the apology culture as well as how difficult the system makes it for you once you've been accused of an offense. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Just_Didn%27t_Do_It https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Just_Didn%27t_Do_It
  - agumonkey 9y ago
    Talking about movies, albeit a different kind, swedish movie kopps is a comedy about a city so devoid of crime, the agents starts to make up things to keep their job.
    - kleiba 9y ago
      Even though this is really off-topic, Kopps is a great movie, as is Jalla Jalla by the same director the latter being even more off-topic as it has nothing to do with crime nor Japan but is instead a romantic comedy set in Sweden.
- gozur88 9y ago
  Jake Adelstein's book Tokyo Vice was an eye opener in this regard. The amount of effort the cops put into a case has a lot to do with the victim. Non-white foreigners and gangsters aren't worth a lot of trouble, e.g. if they find a dead guy with yakuza tattoos at the bottom of a building it's a suicide. Case closed.
ImSkeptical 9y ago
One line from the discussion section of this paper seemed to capture the essence of the concern: >Although Japan's rate of homicide is low compared to many other advanced countries, Japan's rate of unexpected deaths including homicides, traffic accidents, industrial accidents, and suicides is near the median among the selected advanced industrial countries.

throwaway613834 9y ago

This is from... 1994? How relevant is it to 2017?

Retric 9y ago
These are the kind of things that don't change quickly. 100 years ago Chicago was a corrupt city, and today it's _.

taneq 9y ago

This is purely anecdotal but my sister lived in Japan for many years, and she tells me that the policing there is very... uneven, I guess you'd describe it. The police won't get too involved in anything that's not a sure bet to be solved (eg. unexpected deaths are very likely to be written off as suicide) but on the flip side, once they accuse you of something the conviction rate is near 100%. Also if you get a speeding ticket you have to write an apology letter saying how sorry you are, as well as pay the fine.

sandworm101 9y ago
That isnt much higher than the US conviction rate if 95+. There are a few US counties that havent heard "not guilty" for over a decade.
- stupidcar 9y ago
  A well-functioning criminal justice system should always have a high conviction rate, because part of the police and state prosecution service's job is to ensure that they only bring charges and fight cases they think they can win. Given they're experts in criminal prosecution, you would expect them to get it right 90-95% of the time. But there's still a lot of variation in how you get to that situation. E.g. how willing are the police to investigate cases that have a low chance of conviction? How willing are they to coerce confessions or fabricate evidence? Is sentencing and plea-bargaining designed to encourage early guilty pleas regardless of innocence? At trial, how willing are judges to lead juries towards a guilty verdict? These kind of issues are at play in every country's criminal justice system, but, for a modern democracy, Japan seems to have a particularly pervasive culture of police intimidation and coercion.
  - ransom1538 9y ago
    Plea-bargaining is totally insane. Quick example, you own a gun in your Florida home. Unbeknownst to you, your (idiot) cousin smokes a joint in the driveway before leaving and leaves joint on your table. Neighbors call police, they enter your home (based on smell) and find a gun and a joint. You are looking at 10 YEARS in federal jail [i] as a prohibited gun owner, a few months in county (for the joint), possibly some time in state prison for child endangerment (kids were home), and the CPS took your kids that day. IT DOES NOT MATTER if your are innocent or guilty you will do a plea deal. No jury for you. US prosecutors rely on extremely harsh possible sentences to bully innocent defendants into jail. https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-ut/legacy/2013/06/03/guncard.pdf https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-ut/legacy/2...
    - SilasX 9y ago
      I don’t get how you see plea bargaining as the evil thing in that scenario. To me, the shock of that scenario comes from the extremely harsh penalties, often for crimes that can stem from negligence. If you believed the possible punishment were indeed proportional to the crime, would you still be outraged at plea bargaining? And would the same logic apply to any variance reduction strategy (like insurance) or just this one?
      - mcny 9y ago
        > If you believed the possible punishment were indeed proportional to the crime, would you still be outraged at plea bargaining? And would the same logic apply to any variance reduction strategy (like insurance) or just this one? You mean if there was a fine of $1 per domain (per year?) as opposed to possible felony under CFAA to scrape public documents on the Internet? I don't want to get into moral nihilism or whatever we call it but what is a crime? Why are some acts criminal? What makes them different from a civil suit between two parties? Sorry if I sound insane. I may be but the cause is just. Help abolish the CFAA https://www.eff.org/issues/cfaa https://www.eff.org/issues/cfaa
      - ransom1538 9y ago
        "I don’t get how you see plea bargaining as the evil thing in that scenario." Because you don't get one of the fundamental constitutional rights our country was founded on: The right to a jury. Prosecutors should be forced to face a jury.
kleiba 9y ago
For those interested in this, there is a very good Japanese movie whose English title is "I just didn't do it". "Based on a true story, the film focuses on the story of a young man charged with groping on a train. Following the events depicted in the film, he was confirmed innocent and saved from his effective imprisonment after a five-year legal battle." [1] You'll find in this movie exactly what the parent describes, the apology culture as well as how difficult the system makes it for you once you've been accused of an offense. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Just_Didn%27t_Do_It https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Just_Didn%27t_Do_It
- agumonkey 9y ago
  Talking about movies, albeit a different kind, swedish movie kopps is a comedy about a city so devoid of crime, the agents starts to make up things to keep their job.
  - kleiba 9y ago
    Even though this is really off-topic, Kopps is a great movie, as is Jalla Jalla by the same director the latter being even more off-topic as it has nothing to do with crime nor Japan but is instead a romantic comedy set in Sweden.
gozur88 9y ago
Jake Adelstein's book Tokyo Vice was an eye opener in this regard. The amount of effort the cops put into a case has a lot to do with the victim. Non-white foreigners and gangsters aren't worth a lot of trouble, e.g. if they find a dead guy with yakuza tattoos at the bottom of a building it's a suicide. Case closed.

ImSkeptical 9y ago

One line from the discussion section of this paper seemed to capture the essence of the concern: >Although Japan's rate of homicide is low compared to many other advanced countries, Japan's rate of unexpected deaths including homicides, traffic accidents, industrial accidents, and suicides is near the median among the selected advanced industrial countries.