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As someone living far away from SV, this is fascinating reading. But I think the survey could be more precise about what "can't say" really means. Will you get

by olavk 9y ago

As someone living far away from SV, this is fascinating reading. But I think the survey could be more precise about what "can't say" really means. Will you get literally ostracized for holding the viewpoint in private or on a blog, or will you get fired for bringing it up in the workplace? I personally believe some viewpoints really are inappropriate to bring up in a professional working environment. If I genuinely believe read-headed people have a brain structure which makes them inferior developers, I don't think I should bring this issue up during a meeting. Sure, my red-headed coworkers have the option of challenging my viewpoints and perhaps a fruitful discussion will follow - where I will convince them with rational arguments and evidence that my viewpoint is correct. But I think it is fair if said red-headed colleagues would prefer not to have the discussion at all. I notice the top taboo subjects are diversity, racism, sexism etc - exactly subjects where you can indirectly question a colleagues competence.

backpropaganda 9y ago
If your company is spending a significant fraction of its capital on increasing the number of red-headed employees, and purports to be a place where you can voice your opinions about anything that's going wrong, etc., then you might consider discussing whether we as a company are spending too much much money and effort to hire more red-headed people, and that the net effect is bad whether your goal is diversity or performance. Almost anything can be thought of as indirectly questioning colleague's competence. Suppose I saw, "U. Waterloo is a great school, let's hire more people from there.", this is indirectly questioning the competence of anyone who's not from U. Waterloo. Suppose HR decides to offer employees free LASIK surgery, then they are questioning the competence of people who choose to wear glasses instead. Encouraging employees to use desk in stand-up mode questions the competence of people who prefer to work while sitting. The list is endless.
Steeeve 9y ago
SV is an oddly judgemental area. When people have unpopular opinions they tend to discuss them quietly. My wife doesn't work in tech, but she did lose a job over a post on a message board that didn't agree with her boss' politics. (She thought it was a waste of money to rename a school) I'm wide open with the co-workers that I'm close to (i.e. in my working group). I'm more reserved among others, and since I work for a large entity, I'm aware of the people that pose a political challenge and do my best not to piss them off. I know of a few people in tech who let the wrong words out and ended up losing jobs as an indirect result. (it wasn't "you said X, you're gone", it was more "he said X and a few weeks later - surprise surprise... he doesn't work here anymore") I haven't seen anything like that outside of the bay area and I've worked all over.
rectang 9y ago
> Will you get literally ostracized for holding the viewpoint in private or on a blog Yes, that can happen. If you argue on your blog that red-headed people are inherently inferior developers and it gets back to your colleagues, there will be people who treat you differently.
- olavk 9y ago
  Oh certainly, but that does not necessarily mean you "can't say" such things. I would definitely treat a colleague differently if I discover they write a blog arguing in favor of Hungarian Notation. Of course people will judge your character. But if such a blog post would get you fired then it would be fair to say you "can't say" it. As an example, Peter Thiel (if I remember correctly) criticized women having the vote. Certainly a controversial viewpoint, but not controversial enough to get him ostracized. But his support for Trump did get him ostracized to some extent. I think this shows the difference between what is just controversial and what is considered unacceptable in SV.

by olavk 9y ago

backpropaganda 9y ago

If your company is spending a significant fraction of its capital on increasing the number of red-headed employees, and purports to be a place where you can voice your opinions about anything that's going wrong, etc., then you might consider discussing whether we as a company are spending too much much money and effort to hire more red-headed people, and that the net effect is bad whether your goal is diversity or performance. Almost anything can be thought of as indirectly questioning colleague's competence. Suppose I saw, "U. Waterloo is a great school, let's hire more people from there.", this is indirectly questioning the competence of anyone who's not from U. Waterloo. Suppose HR decides to offer employees free LASIK surgery, then they are questioning the competence of people who choose to wear glasses instead. Encouraging employees to use desk in stand-up mode questions the competence of people who prefer to work while sitting. The list is endless.

Steeeve 9y ago

SV is an oddly judgemental area. When people have unpopular opinions they tend to discuss them quietly. My wife doesn't work in tech, but she did lose a job over a post on a message board that didn't agree with her boss' politics. (She thought it was a waste of money to rename a school) I'm wide open with the co-workers that I'm close to (i.e. in my working group). I'm more reserved among others, and since I work for a large entity, I'm aware of the people that pose a political challenge and do my best not to piss them off. I know of a few people in tech who let the wrong words out and ended up losing jobs as an indirect result. (it wasn't "you said X, you're gone", it was more "he said X and a few weeks later - surprise surprise... he doesn't work here anymore") I haven't seen anything like that outside of the bay area and I've worked all over.

rectang 9y ago

> Will you get literally ostracized for holding the viewpoint in private or on a blog Yes, that can happen. If you argue on your blog that red-headed people are inherently inferior developers and it gets back to your colleagues, there will be people who treat you differently.

olavk 9y ago
Oh certainly, but that does not necessarily mean you "can't say" such things. I would definitely treat a colleague differently if I discover they write a blog arguing in favor of Hungarian Notation. Of course people will judge your character. But if such a blog post would get you fired then it would be fair to say you "can't say" it. As an example, Peter Thiel (if I remember correctly) criticized women having the vote. Certainly a controversial viewpoint, but not controversial enough to get him ostracized. But his support for Trump did get him ostracized to some extent. I think this shows the difference between what is just controversial and what is considered unacceptable in SV.