8 ms·

> Japan has a very low crime rate, which is surely a key reason parents feel confident about sending their kids out alone. I grew up in a relatively high crime

by rdtsc 9y ago

> Japan has a very low crime rate, which is surely a key reason parents feel confident about sending their kids out alone. I grew up in a relatively high crime area but still walked to school and sometimes took public transport. The only thing that made it somewhat unsafe was the bullying by other school kids. Of course there is an overlap there as yesterday's bullies are tomorrow's criminals, but still it wasn't enough to have parents escort me. Sometimes strangers intervened to save me from a few attacks by groups of older kids. So maybe there is an element there as well of people not minding asking kids what's happening, why are they pushing this one kid to the ground. Now living in US in a much safer area I would think very well before sending my kids to school by themselves at the age when I was going to school by myself. The reason is neighbors who could report me to the police for "child endangerment or neglect". It happened to a co-worker. One of the neighbors reported them to the police while kids were playing out in the front by themselves. It issue was resolved but not without embarrassing calls to work and home visits.

NicoJuicy 9y ago
You could go to the police and ask, if something happens ( neglect), you can reference to the talk with a police officer
- 77pt77 9y ago
  No legal validity whatsoever
  - smichel17 9y ago
    That's not entirely true. IANAL, nor am I familiar with this particular area of the law, but many places of the law include the concept of a "reasonable person". That is, whether you have acted as a reasonable person would act. In a place where the law is clearly defined, you're correct, that wouldn't help. However, when the law is vague, a documented conversation like that is definitely good evidence that one was acting reasonably.
  - NicoJuicy 9y ago
    Well, if someone says your irresponsible and a social worker comes along, it will give a good impression of responsable thinking. Not everything must/can be legally validated. In the same reasoning, that's why a judge can have a jury
emiliobumachar 9y ago
There was one case where the mother was arrested for letting the kids play outside. So, the obvious first step to fixing this problem in the U.S. would be to make it explicitly legal. Something like "letting children unsupervised in public space for less than 5 hours shall not, by itself, be construed as child abuse or neglect." Plausible? Any downsides? Can any town do it by itself, or is an act of Congress needed?
- galfarragem 9y ago
  Common sense could not be erradicated anyway: it's not the same to allow them to be alone for 5 hours in the neighborhood, in Times Square or somewhere in a high crime area.
  - mamon 9y ago
    The problem is, US law has long eradicated "common sense" as a legal category. That's why you can get a compensation from a microwave manufacturer when you kill your dog , trying to dry it in microwave after bath, because microwave manual does not explicitly forbid putting live animals inside. Appealing to common sense in the court of law is a lost cause.
    - naasking 9y ago
      FALSE: https://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/microwavedpet.asp https://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/microwavedpet.asp https://www.out-law.com/page-3396 https://www.out-law.com/page-3396 It seriously pisses me off that people think the law and rulings made by judges and juries are absurd without knowing anything about the cases or rulings in question. It seriously smacks of arrogance, because these people are your peers, so you are implicitly claiming that you are smarter than all of them. I assure you, that's probably not the case, and in that same situation, you probably would have reached the same conclusion. There are always exceptions, but check your facts before assuming you're less of an idiot than others.
      - aduitsis 9y ago
iCarrot 9y ago
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/05/27/national/crime-legal/chiba-prosecutors-indict-former-school-association-head-shibuya-murder-vietnamese-third-grader/#.WjY7EKAxXqA https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/05/27/national/crime-... I would also report neglectment if children are still on their own after this. Done by one whose job is to protect the children, no less.
- behringer 9y ago
  Don't be surprised when your children fail to thrive as an adult if you've never let them out of your sight and on their own. Criminals can act anywhere and at any time. It's not a good enough reason to hurt your Childs development.
k__ 9y ago
So strange... I walked to kindergarden by my own when I was 4 or something and after that was never accompanied by my parents again.
CydeWeys 9y ago
> The only thing that made it somewhat unsafe was the bullying by other school kids. Of course there is an overlap there as yesterday's bullies are tomorrow's criminals Do you have a source on this? I could see there being perhaps some correlation, but it's far from an obvious fact to me that bullies just turn out to become criminals. Most of the bullies I'm aware of from school simply grew out of it as they got older and were never at risk of not becoming productive members of society, they just developed more empathy and/or became less mean. I'd be curious to know if someone's run a longitudinal study to measure correlation between bullying at younger ages and violent criminality at older ages.
somethingsimple 9y ago
Do you mind sharing in what state you live? I wonder if there’s a cultural difference between the West Coast and other parts of the country when it comes to calling CPS on people. We live in WA and our 9 year old daughter walks back from the school bus stop alone everyday, then stays alone at home for 3-4 hours until we come back from work (we let her because we deem her mature enough for that, before age 9 she went to an after school program). A few of our neighbors and even the building management people know about it, and don’t seem to take issue with it. The building administrator actually said something like “ooh she’s a big girl now! :)” when we requested an extra key for our daughter. So there’s that, and also that every CPS story I’ve heard or read on the news seems to have happened in the Midwest or the East Coast.
- jason_slack 9y ago
  I live in upstate NY and I think that here if my 9 year old walked home alone everyday and then stayed in our house alone everyday some people might call CPS is they knew about it or noticed it. I wish I understood why. Perhaps it is economics related? I should research this more because it would be interesting to understand.

by rdtsc 9y ago

NicoJuicy 9y ago

You could go to the police and ask, if something happens ( neglect), you can reference to the talk with a police officer

77pt77 9y ago
No legal validity whatsoever
- smichel17 9y ago
  That's not entirely true. IANAL, nor am I familiar with this particular area of the law, but many places of the law include the concept of a "reasonable person". That is, whether you have acted as a reasonable person would act. In a place where the law is clearly defined, you're correct, that wouldn't help. However, when the law is vague, a documented conversation like that is definitely good evidence that one was acting reasonably.
- NicoJuicy 9y ago
  Well, if someone says your irresponsible and a social worker comes along, it will give a good impression of responsable thinking. Not everything must/can be legally validated. In the same reasoning, that's why a judge can have a jury

emiliobumachar 9y ago

There was one case where the mother was arrested for letting the kids play outside. So, the obvious first step to fixing this problem in the U.S. would be to make it explicitly legal. Something like "letting children unsupervised in public space for less than 5 hours shall not, by itself, be construed as child abuse or neglect." Plausible? Any downsides? Can any town do it by itself, or is an act of Congress needed?

galfarragem 9y ago
Common sense could not be erradicated anyway: it's not the same to allow them to be alone for 5 hours in the neighborhood, in Times Square or somewhere in a high crime area.
- mamon 9y ago
  The problem is, US law has long eradicated "common sense" as a legal category. That's why you can get a compensation from a microwave manufacturer when you kill your dog , trying to dry it in microwave after bath, because microwave manual does not explicitly forbid putting live animals inside. Appealing to common sense in the court of law is a lost cause.
  - naasking 9y ago
    FALSE: https://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/microwavedpet.asp https://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/microwavedpet.asp https://www.out-law.com/page-3396 https://www.out-law.com/page-3396 It seriously pisses me off that people think the law and rulings made by judges and juries are absurd without knowing anything about the cases or rulings in question. It seriously smacks of arrogance, because these people are your peers, so you are implicitly claiming that you are smarter than all of them. I assure you, that's probably not the case, and in that same situation, you probably would have reached the same conclusion. There are always exceptions, but check your facts before assuming you're less of an idiot than others.
    - aduitsis 9y ago

iCarrot 9y ago

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/05/27/national/crime-legal/chiba-prosecutors-indict-former-school-association-head-shibuya-murder-vietnamese-third-grader/#.WjY7EKAxXqA https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/05/27/national/crime-... I would also report neglectment if children are still on their own after this. Done by one whose job is to protect the children, no less.

behringer 9y ago
Don't be surprised when your children fail to thrive as an adult if you've never let them out of your sight and on their own. Criminals can act anywhere and at any time. It's not a good enough reason to hurt your Childs development.

k__ 9y ago

So strange... I walked to kindergarden by my own when I was 4 or something and after that was never accompanied by my parents again.

CydeWeys 9y ago

> The only thing that made it somewhat unsafe was the bullying by other school kids. Of course there is an overlap there as yesterday's bullies are tomorrow's criminals Do you have a source on this? I could see there being perhaps some correlation, but it's far from an obvious fact to me that bullies just turn out to become criminals. Most of the bullies I'm aware of from school simply grew out of it as they got older and were never at risk of not becoming productive members of society, they just developed more empathy and/or became less mean. I'd be curious to know if someone's run a longitudinal study to measure correlation between bullying at younger ages and violent criminality at older ages.

somethingsimple 9y ago

Do you mind sharing in what state you live? I wonder if there’s a cultural difference between the West Coast and other parts of the country when it comes to calling CPS on people. We live in WA and our 9 year old daughter walks back from the school bus stop alone everyday, then stays alone at home for 3-4 hours until we come back from work (we let her because we deem her mature enough for that, before age 9 she went to an after school program). A few of our neighbors and even the building management people know about it, and don’t seem to take issue with it. The building administrator actually said something like “ooh she’s a big girl now! :)” when we requested an extra key for our daughter. So there’s that, and also that every CPS story I’ve heard or read on the news seems to have happened in the Midwest or the East Coast.

jason_slack 9y ago
I live in upstate NY and I think that here if my 9 year old walked home alone everyday and then stayed in our house alone everyday some people might call CPS is they knew about it or noticed it. I wish I understood why. Perhaps it is economics related? I should research this more because it would be interesting to understand.