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Nevermind they don't have enough power in either house. Nevermind that the President would veto the thing. You've gotta wonder what the Dems are thinking. Party

by danjoc 9y ago

Nevermind they don't have enough power in either house. Nevermind that the President would veto the thing. You've gotta wonder what the Dems are thinking. Party of the people? Telecom employs orders of magnitude more voters than Tech. Just for example, Reddit employs 230 voters Comcast employs 153000 voters Imagine if it did pass. Just think of what happens if Comcast cancels a pay bonus due to "burdensome new rules passed by congressional Democrats. Also, we will be bringing in some Silicon Valley efficiency experts to see how we can automate away about 10% of our workforce to cover the gap." I don't even know what the Democrats are trying to achieve anymore. The whole party seems bent on political suicide.

calciphus 9y ago
When more than 80% of Americans (according to http://thehill.com/policy/technology/364528-poll-83-percent-of-voters-support-keeping-fccs-net-neutrality-rules http://thehill.com/policy/technology/364528-poll-83-percent-...) opposed something and you can force your opposition to vote against that majority, you can use that in future elections as evidence that they're corrupt. Especially when there's a money linked to how they voted against their constituents. Why do you think there were so many house bills to repeal the ACA when it wasn't possible with the Senate and Obama in office, and so few once they had the numbers? Same game, different ball.
- danjoc 9y ago
  >80% of Americans Biased poll with leading questions. Ask them if they think the FCC should outlaw unlimited video streaming on T-Mobile Binge On. The 80% evaporates immediately. >you can use that in future elections as evidence that they're corrupt Assuming the wild apocalyptic predictions from Reddit turn out to be even half true. If what actually happens is a nothingburger, or more zero rating that people like, then the Dems and Tech companies pushing this lose more credibility.
  - marricks 9y ago
    It's cool how "nothingburger" is now a shibboleth to identify Trump supporters.
  - throwaway613834 9y ago
    > Biased poll with leading questions. Ask them if they think the FCC should outlaw unlimited video streaming on T-Mobile Binge On. The 80% evaporates immediately. Your potentially good point got lost in how awfully you put it. This wasn't a vote on T-Mobile or Binge-on, so it would have made no sense to ask if they should have been outlawed. But if you do have examples of questions you consider biased and legitimate corrections to them that you believe would lower the bias, I would be happy to be convinced it was biased and would love to hear your genuine improvements.
    - millstone 9y ago
      Here's some issues with the poll: 1. Status quo bias. Ask whether any complicated policy should be changed and most people will say it should not. What percentage of respondents would have supported reclassifying ISPs under Title II in 2015, giving the government the power to dictate prices? 2. The wording of the introduction is phrased in terms of ISPs providing more access (yayyy!) and being forbidden from charging "extra fees" (booo!). Here is a different phrasing: "Currently ISPs are forbidden from offering customers discounts if they do not use certain sites or services. ISPs are also prohibited from optimizing latency or bandwidth according to the nature of the content. Removing these restrictions could allow for cheaper Internet plans and faster speeds for some content. Should this regulation be removed?" One might object that "offering customers discounts" is a hypothetical, but the pro-NN arguments are also hypothetical; the fact is we don't really know what will happen.
      - throwaway613834 9y ago
        > 1. Status quo bias. Ask whether any complicated policy should be changed and most people will say it should not. Leaving aside the question of whether net neutrality was a "complicated" thing for people to understand for a moment, I don't even understand how this is an issue with the polling. The subject or policy under question is whatever it is. You can't call the poll biased just because the subject it is polling about is complicated. (And you would need a citation for this too. I would expect the split to be closer to 50/50, perhaps with a slight bias in the direction you claim, but nothing like 80/20.) 2. The wording of the introduction is phrased in terms of ISPs providing more access (yayyy!) and being forbidden from charging "extra fees" (booo!). Here is a different phrasing: "Currently ISPs are forbidden from offering customers discounts if they do not use certain sites or services. ISPs are also prohibited from optimizing latency or bandwidth according to the nature of the content. Removing these restrictions could allow for cheaper Internet plans and faster speeds for some content. Should this regulation be removed?" Uhm... you talk about the FCC prohibiting discounts and speed boosts the entire time, and not once do you mention that this regulation also prevents ISPs from charging extra fees and throttling speeds for whatever sites they like. You really think your version of this is less biased? Seriously? > One might object that "offering customers discounts" is a hypothetical, but the pro-NN arguments are also hypothetical; the fact is we don't really know what will happen. IIRC other countries have already tried this and observed its effects. So we have some real-world evidence that would seem to suggest some outcomes are not merely hypothetical. But in any case, you don't get to accuse someone/something of being biased and then bias them farther in the reverse direction. That's just dishonest.
  - tzs 9y ago
    > Biased poll with leading questions. Ask them if they think the FCC should outlaw unlimited video streaming on T-Mobile Binge On. The 80% evaporates immediately. Since "Binge On" does not violate the FCC's 2015 net neutrality rules, why would that question be relevant when polling people about whether or not to repeal those rules?
nkassis 9y ago
Your choice of companies to compare is pretty odd. Amazon now has over 500k employees (http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/26/technology/business/amazon-earnings/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/26/technology/business/amazon-e...) Sorry but I highly doubt the democratic party would see anything but benefits from this stance. The 5+ votes to repeal Obamacare that ended with vetoed by Obama on Obamacare seemed to have had some good effect for the republican party.
- mwilliaams 9y ago
  Amazon is a lot more than a tech company. Supply chain workers are probably most of their employees. Google would be a better comparison. They have ~60,000.
  - origami777 9y ago
    Comcast is more comparable to amazon. Both have a mix of employees, both including a large amount of low skill/ grunt jobs. Edited for clarity

by danjoc 9y ago

calciphus 9y ago

When more than 80% of Americans (according to http://thehill.com/policy/technology/364528-poll-83-percent-of-voters-support-keeping-fccs-net-neutrality-rules http://thehill.com/policy/technology/364528-poll-83-percent-...) opposed something and you can force your opposition to vote against that majority, you can use that in future elections as evidence that they're corrupt. Especially when there's a money linked to how they voted against their constituents. Why do you think there were so many house bills to repeal the ACA when it wasn't possible with the Senate and Obama in office, and so few once they had the numbers? Same game, different ball.

danjoc 9y ago
>80% of Americans Biased poll with leading questions. Ask them if they think the FCC should outlaw unlimited video streaming on T-Mobile Binge On. The 80% evaporates immediately. >you can use that in future elections as evidence that they're corrupt Assuming the wild apocalyptic predictions from Reddit turn out to be even half true. If what actually happens is a nothingburger, or more zero rating that people like, then the Dems and Tech companies pushing this lose more credibility.
- marricks 9y ago
  It's cool how "nothingburger" is now a shibboleth to identify Trump supporters.
- throwaway613834 9y ago
  > Biased poll with leading questions. Ask them if they think the FCC should outlaw unlimited video streaming on T-Mobile Binge On. The 80% evaporates immediately. Your potentially good point got lost in how awfully you put it. This wasn't a vote on T-Mobile or Binge-on, so it would have made no sense to ask if they should have been outlawed. But if you do have examples of questions you consider biased and legitimate corrections to them that you believe would lower the bias, I would be happy to be convinced it was biased and would love to hear your genuine improvements.
  - millstone 9y ago
    Here's some issues with the poll: 1. Status quo bias. Ask whether any complicated policy should be changed and most people will say it should not. What percentage of respondents would have supported reclassifying ISPs under Title II in 2015, giving the government the power to dictate prices? 2. The wording of the introduction is phrased in terms of ISPs providing more access (yayyy!) and being forbidden from charging "extra fees" (booo!). Here is a different phrasing: "Currently ISPs are forbidden from offering customers discounts if they do not use certain sites or services. ISPs are also prohibited from optimizing latency or bandwidth according to the nature of the content. Removing these restrictions could allow for cheaper Internet plans and faster speeds for some content. Should this regulation be removed?" One might object that "offering customers discounts" is a hypothetical, but the pro-NN arguments are also hypothetical; the fact is we don't really know what will happen.
    - throwaway613834 9y ago
      > 1. Status quo bias. Ask whether any complicated policy should be changed and most people will say it should not. Leaving aside the question of whether net neutrality was a "complicated" thing for people to understand for a moment, I don't even understand how this is an issue with the polling. The subject or policy under question is whatever it is. You can't call the poll biased just because the subject it is polling about is complicated. (And you would need a citation for this too. I would expect the split to be closer to 50/50, perhaps with a slight bias in the direction you claim, but nothing like 80/20.) 2. The wording of the introduction is phrased in terms of ISPs providing more access (yayyy!) and being forbidden from charging "extra fees" (booo!). Here is a different phrasing: "Currently ISPs are forbidden from offering customers discounts if they do not use certain sites or services. ISPs are also prohibited from optimizing latency or bandwidth according to the nature of the content. Removing these restrictions could allow for cheaper Internet plans and faster speeds for some content. Should this regulation be removed?" Uhm... you talk about the FCC prohibiting discounts and speed boosts the entire time, and not once do you mention that this regulation also prevents ISPs from charging extra fees and throttling speeds for whatever sites they like. You really think your version of this is less biased? Seriously? > One might object that "offering customers discounts" is a hypothetical, but the pro-NN arguments are also hypothetical; the fact is we don't really know what will happen. IIRC other countries have already tried this and observed its effects. So we have some real-world evidence that would seem to suggest some outcomes are not merely hypothetical. But in any case, you don't get to accuse someone/something of being biased and then bias them farther in the reverse direction. That's just dishonest.
- tzs 9y ago
  > Biased poll with leading questions. Ask them if they think the FCC should outlaw unlimited video streaming on T-Mobile Binge On. The 80% evaporates immediately. Since "Binge On" does not violate the FCC's 2015 net neutrality rules, why would that question be relevant when polling people about whether or not to repeal those rules?

nkassis 9y ago

Your choice of companies to compare is pretty odd. Amazon now has over 500k employees (http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/26/technology/business/amazon-earnings/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/26/technology/business/amazon-e...) Sorry but I highly doubt the democratic party would see anything but benefits from this stance. The 5+ votes to repeal Obamacare that ended with vetoed by Obama on Obamacare seemed to have had some good effect for the republican party.

mwilliaams 9y ago
Amazon is a lot more than a tech company. Supply chain workers are probably most of their employees. Google would be a better comparison. They have ~60,000.
- origami777 9y ago
  Comcast is more comparable to amazon. Both have a mix of employees, both including a large amount of low skill/ grunt jobs. Edited for clarity