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The analysis is kinder to the rapists than the data. They state that they believe that this ruins the woman's marital prospects forever, but that didn't stop t

The analysis is kinder to the rapists than the data. They state that they believe that this ruins the woman's marital prospects forever, but that didn't stop them from doing it. Even within their belief system, they are acting monstrously. Interviewing them is a great idea, but the researchers should be open to the idea that the main problem is the boring, standard idea that violent criminals have little empathy for their victims, and little impulse control.

dingo_bat 9y ago
Agreed. I hate this trend of trying to mellow everything down to some harmless palatable cause. People rape because they are worthless scum who don't think about their victim's wellbeing. People murder because they don't value their victim's life. I don't need to justify their fucked up behaviour using some humane analysis of their psyche. Just lock them up and throw away the key.
- Domenic_S 9y ago
  Are you misunderstanding this as a personal analysis to _understand_ the rapist personally? I don't think that's it -- she gave them numbers after all. At a population level, it's interesting to study. Our brains are machines that we don't fully understand, it could be useful to discover why rapists rape. If you had lived one of those guys on the bus' life, would you have participated? Or are people like this born broken, never to be fixed, and we may as well throw away the key? It's a bit like Star Trek: Nemesis. In some future if we could give a convicted rapist a pill that we scientifically know would prevent him from ever having a rape impulse again, would we accept him back into society? What if it was preventative?
- warent 9y ago
  This is a mentality that humans have had since the dawn of history. Not necessarily towards rape specifically, but to things the broader popular society finds morally reprehensible. Your line of reasoning is totally normal for the human condition and has been used for thousands of years now. Here we are today without any lack of morally reprehensible problems. Don't you think it's time we changed our strategy and rose above this animalistic, purely instinctual nature? It's time we got out of this mess.
  - someguydave 9y ago
    > Don't you think it's time we changed our strategy and rose above this animalistic, purely instinctual nature? The poster's reaction is justified disgust toward someone who is clearly dangerous to his fellow humans. Why should traditions that have served humanity well be cast aside because it is $CURRENTYEAR? The burden of proof is on those who would do otherwise, not the natural and obvious thing.
- Sharlin 9y ago
  You're making a common mistake. Understanding something is not the same as justifying or accepting it.
- tomjen3 9y ago
  People who rape[fn:1] are definitely worthless scum who don't care about their victims wellbeing, and I got no issue with giving them the death penalty - however what if there was some harmeless palatable cause that could be fixed/prevented/managed? What if we could prevent rape? I am not looking for such a course for the rapist sake, but to protect any future victims. [fn:1] Not including, obviously, cases where they were both drunk or where one party later regretted it.
- twobyfour 9y ago
  Why does an analysis of their psyche have to result in a "justification" of what they've done? What if that analysis could uncover ways to teach people to think about their victims or at least to think about the potential consequences - and thus prevent future rapes?
warent 9y ago
The researchers should be open to the idea that the main problem is the boring, standard idea that violent criminals have little empathy for their victims, and little impulse control. Even so, perhaps having little empathy and little impulse control is not the root, but actually a byproduct of something else. A programming analogy would be like this is a bug in their code, and our current method of dealing with it is to kill their process or filter their "standard out" to avoid/ignore the unpleasant buggy output. What if instead, we could come to comprehend a deeper architecture problem that we could then prevent or fix by refactoring?
ScottBurson 9y ago
You missed the interesting part. She also interviewed 65 convicted murderers, and most of them showed some remorse, while very few of the rapists did. There's more to this than violent criminals lacking empathy.

dingo_bat 9y ago

Agreed. I hate this trend of trying to mellow everything down to some harmless palatable cause. People rape because they are worthless scum who don't think about their victim's wellbeing. People murder because they don't value their victim's life. I don't need to justify their fucked up behaviour using some humane analysis of their psyche. Just lock them up and throw away the key.

Domenic_S 9y ago
Are you misunderstanding this as a personal analysis to _understand_ the rapist personally? I don't think that's it -- she gave them numbers after all. At a population level, it's interesting to study. Our brains are machines that we don't fully understand, it could be useful to discover why rapists rape. If you had lived one of those guys on the bus' life, would you have participated? Or are people like this born broken, never to be fixed, and we may as well throw away the key? It's a bit like Star Trek: Nemesis. In some future if we could give a convicted rapist a pill that we scientifically know would prevent him from ever having a rape impulse again, would we accept him back into society? What if it was preventative?
warent 9y ago
This is a mentality that humans have had since the dawn of history. Not necessarily towards rape specifically, but to things the broader popular society finds morally reprehensible. Your line of reasoning is totally normal for the human condition and has been used for thousands of years now. Here we are today without any lack of morally reprehensible problems. Don't you think it's time we changed our strategy and rose above this animalistic, purely instinctual nature? It's time we got out of this mess.
- someguydave 9y ago
  > Don't you think it's time we changed our strategy and rose above this animalistic, purely instinctual nature? The poster's reaction is justified disgust toward someone who is clearly dangerous to his fellow humans. Why should traditions that have served humanity well be cast aside because it is $CURRENTYEAR? The burden of proof is on those who would do otherwise, not the natural and obvious thing.
Sharlin 9y ago
You're making a common mistake. Understanding something is not the same as justifying or accepting it.
tomjen3 9y ago
People who rape[fn:1] are definitely worthless scum who don't care about their victims wellbeing, and I got no issue with giving them the death penalty - however what if there was some harmeless palatable cause that could be fixed/prevented/managed? What if we could prevent rape? I am not looking for such a course for the rapist sake, but to protect any future victims. [fn:1] Not including, obviously, cases where they were both drunk or where one party later regretted it.
twobyfour 9y ago
Why does an analysis of their psyche have to result in a "justification" of what they've done? What if that analysis could uncover ways to teach people to think about their victims or at least to think about the potential consequences - and thus prevent future rapes?

warent 9y ago

The researchers should be open to the idea that the main problem is the boring, standard idea that violent criminals have little empathy for their victims, and little impulse control. Even so, perhaps having little empathy and little impulse control is not the root, but actually a byproduct of something else. A programming analogy would be like this is a bug in their code, and our current method of dealing with it is to kill their process or filter their "standard out" to avoid/ignore the unpleasant buggy output. What if instead, we could come to comprehend a deeper architecture problem that we could then prevent or fix by refactoring?

ScottBurson 9y ago

You missed the interesting part. She also interviewed 65 convicted murderers, and most of them showed some remorse, while very few of the rapists did. There's more to this than violent criminals lacking empathy.