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If it helps answer your question, I am a woman and I do not see all men as having narrow views of women. I feel as if there is still a cultural struggle to some

If it helps answer your question, I am a woman and I do not see all men as having narrow views of women. I feel as if there is still a cultural struggle to some degree, but to say all men feel that way is a bit extreme in my mind.

evanlivingston 9y ago
It's astounding to me that the comment was flagged. I don't remember the exact words of the original comment, but I don't recall the OP saying "all men". The OP said women were perceived as property. It doesn't take all men to believe that, it just takes most men. A woman isn't raped by all men, she's raped by an individual man. It only takes one man to commit the crime, and a cultural problem of perceiving women as rapable is what creates a world where 1 in 5 women are raped.
- ImSkeptical 9y ago
  As I've replied in a previous comment, in the US, 91% of people view equal rights between genders as "very important" (source below). How does that fit with your implied belief that most people perceive women as property? Are you, perhaps, located in Saudi Arabia? I'm also curious for your source on the statistic that 1 in 5 women worldwide are raped. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/19/many-around-the-world-say-womens-equality-is-very-important/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/19/many-around-...
  - evanlivingston 9y ago
    The number of people saying they feel as though women's equality is not the same as there being equality for women. Let's use a few examples: A majority of people don't approve of Trump, but he is however still the President. I have a very strong suspicion most people in the U.S. would say racism ought to not exist, but we know for a fact that it does. One of the more telling flaws in using the simple metric of a survey of opinions is that the U.S appears to be one of the leaders in gender equality according to the linked article. However U.S. legislation clearly shows this to be less true when compared to other countries, particularly Western Europe. Again, we can look at rape statistics to see how untrue this is. The 1 in 5 statistic I referenced came from a CDC survey. there are differing statistics, but none of them paint a very pretty picture.
    - ImSkeptical 9y ago
      I don't believe we are discussing the fact of women's equality, but the attitudes towards it. You wrote: >The OP said women were perceived as property. It doesn't take all men to believe that, it just takes most men. And that's the sentiment I'm responding to. I don't believe it's true that most men, or even a large minority of men, believe that women are rapable property. That view strikes me as perverse and pernicious and I'd like to correct it for you if possible. I think the survey I already cited does directly refute this idea - most men believe that it is very important for men and women to have equal rights as men, which is surely incompatible with the "most men think women are rapable property" view. I can understand being outraged about rape, but in order to act effectively against it, or about anything, you must first realize what is true, and it just is not true that any sizable portion of men think of women as rapable property in the United States. Let's take a look at that CDC study you referenced, because I think it will actually offer illuminating insight that proves my point. https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-... That's the 2010 version, although other years are similar. If you look on page 18 table 2.1 on the right hand column labeled "12 Month" you can see the percentage of women who were raped in the past 12 months - 1.1% of women. Shocking and horrifying, I agree. However, scroll on down to page 19 and see table 2.2 the same column, listed under the row for "Other Sexual Violence" you can see that 1.1% of US Men were "Made to penetrate" other people in the past 12 months. Now, I'm not equating the two crimes exactly - I'd rather be forced to penetrate someone than be forcibly penetrated by them, but they are conceptually similar and both involve a sexual act being forced upon the victim. My point here is that men, using the "Past 12 Month" metric are victims of "Forced to penetrate" in the same proportion as women are "Forced to be penetrated" and yet, I doubt anyone would suggest that we live in a culture where men are rapable property. The CDC study you reference, by the way, has a figure that is about an order of magnitude higher than what's seen in national crime surveys (that cover unreported rapes too) and has been criticized for conflating rape with sex while intoxicated. You can see the same language the CDC survey used in questions on page 17 of the PDF I linked above where they write that rape "includes times when the victim was drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent" - one reading of which could be that rape includes both "Times you were drunk" and "Times you were unable to consent". If you answered that "Yes" that you have had sex in the past 12 months to a question with that language, and you meant that you had had sex while drunk in the past 12 months, the CDC would have counted that as rape - interpreting your answer as being "Drunk and unable to consent."
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
twobyfour 9y ago
Seconded.

evanlivingston 9y ago

It's astounding to me that the comment was flagged. I don't remember the exact words of the original comment, but I don't recall the OP saying "all men". The OP said women were perceived as property. It doesn't take all men to believe that, it just takes most men. A woman isn't raped by all men, she's raped by an individual man. It only takes one man to commit the crime, and a cultural problem of perceiving women as rapable is what creates a world where 1 in 5 women are raped.

ImSkeptical 9y ago
As I've replied in a previous comment, in the US, 91% of people view equal rights between genders as "very important" (source below). How does that fit with your implied belief that most people perceive women as property? Are you, perhaps, located in Saudi Arabia? I'm also curious for your source on the statistic that 1 in 5 women worldwide are raped. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/19/many-around-the-world-say-womens-equality-is-very-important/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/19/many-around-...
- evanlivingston 9y ago
  The number of people saying they feel as though women's equality is not the same as there being equality for women. Let's use a few examples: A majority of people don't approve of Trump, but he is however still the President. I have a very strong suspicion most people in the U.S. would say racism ought to not exist, but we know for a fact that it does. One of the more telling flaws in using the simple metric of a survey of opinions is that the U.S appears to be one of the leaders in gender equality according to the linked article. However U.S. legislation clearly shows this to be less true when compared to other countries, particularly Western Europe. Again, we can look at rape statistics to see how untrue this is. The 1 in 5 statistic I referenced came from a CDC survey. there are differing statistics, but none of them paint a very pretty picture.
  - ImSkeptical 9y ago
    I don't believe we are discussing the fact of women's equality, but the attitudes towards it. You wrote: >The OP said women were perceived as property. It doesn't take all men to believe that, it just takes most men. And that's the sentiment I'm responding to. I don't believe it's true that most men, or even a large minority of men, believe that women are rapable property. That view strikes me as perverse and pernicious and I'd like to correct it for you if possible. I think the survey I already cited does directly refute this idea - most men believe that it is very important for men and women to have equal rights as men, which is surely incompatible with the "most men think women are rapable property" view. I can understand being outraged about rape, but in order to act effectively against it, or about anything, you must first realize what is true, and it just is not true that any sizable portion of men think of women as rapable property in the United States. Let's take a look at that CDC study you referenced, because I think it will actually offer illuminating insight that proves my point. https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-... That's the 2010 version, although other years are similar. If you look on page 18 table 2.1 on the right hand column labeled "12 Month" you can see the percentage of women who were raped in the past 12 months - 1.1% of women. Shocking and horrifying, I agree. However, scroll on down to page 19 and see table 2.2 the same column, listed under the row for "Other Sexual Violence" you can see that 1.1% of US Men were "Made to penetrate" other people in the past 12 months. Now, I'm not equating the two crimes exactly - I'd rather be forced to penetrate someone than be forcibly penetrated by them, but they are conceptually similar and both involve a sexual act being forced upon the victim. My point here is that men, using the "Past 12 Month" metric are victims of "Forced to penetrate" in the same proportion as women are "Forced to be penetrated" and yet, I doubt anyone would suggest that we live in a culture where men are rapable property. The CDC study you reference, by the way, has a figure that is about an order of magnitude higher than what's seen in national crime surveys (that cover unreported rapes too) and has been criticized for conflating rape with sex while intoxicated. You can see the same language the CDC survey used in questions on page 17 of the PDF I linked above where they write that rape "includes times when the victim was drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent" - one reading of which could be that rape includes both "Times you were drunk" and "Times you were unable to consent". If you answered that "Yes" that you have had sex in the past 12 months to a question with that language, and you meant that you had had sex while drunk in the past 12 months, the CDC would have counted that as rape - interpreting your answer as being "Drunk and unable to consent."
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

twobyfour 9y ago

Seconded.