4 ms·

I don't see any similarity.

mc32 9y ago
The article points this out specifically: >"To understand the allure that social engineering holds for Chinese leaders, you have to go back decades, to long before apps and big data. In the years after the 1949 Communist Revolution, the government assigned everyone to local work units, which became the locus of surveillance and control. Individuals spied on their neighbors while also doing everything they could to avoid black marks on their own dang’an, or government files. But maintaining the system required massive state effort and oversight. As economic reforms in the 1980s led millions of people to leave their villages and migrate to cities, the work unit system fell apart. Migration also had a secondary effect: Cities filled up with strangers and pianzi."
- cheapsteak 9y ago
  I don't see any references to Cultural Revolution in that quote?
  - nerdponx 9y ago
    I don't know your background, so I'm not sure if you're being coy or genuinely don't know. But the gist is: mass persecution, made possible by citizens spying on each other. OK fair, nobody has been singled out or publicly humiliated (yet), but it's the same setup. Forgive me if the Cultural Revolution means something different to you; I'm going based on the description given to me by one of my close friends, whose parents are from China and experienced it.
    - cheapsteak 9y ago
      Appreciate the benefit of doubt, I honestly didn't see a connection and thought you might have conflated Cultural Revolution with Communist Revolution. I think that I can understand where your interpretation came from, but wouldn't really draw that connection here Neighbors and friends and family "whistleblowing" each other to the government certainly was an aspect of Cultural Revolution, but it never really struck me as a distinctive/defining feature. The same things happened before Cultural Revolution as well (note that the time period pointed out in the article is 1949, which is the year Communist China was established and revolutionary zeal was high, but 17 years before the Cultural Revolution began), and the same tattling can also be found during McCarthy-era America, and briefly in post-9-11 America ("If You See Something, Say Something") The more defining features of the Cultural Revolution (at least to Chinese) is the persecution specifically of educated people (professors being harassed and shamed into committing suicide. "the more educated, the more reactionary"), the shunning of education (My grandpa had to shut the doors and teach his kids in secret at home, quite a risky move if anyone found out), the scheduled public demonstrations of loyalty to the party via everyone getting together to dance the loyalty dance every morning, and a dogmatic adherence to party lines, no rational or logic debate allowed (you will be shunned and reported). Don't really see those features in this policy.

mc32 9y ago

The article points this out specifically: >"To understand the allure that social engineering holds for Chinese leaders, you have to go back decades, to long before apps and big data. In the years after the 1949 Communist Revolution, the government assigned everyone to local work units, which became the locus of surveillance and control. Individuals spied on their neighbors while also doing everything they could to avoid black marks on their own dang’an, or government files. But maintaining the system required massive state effort and oversight. As economic reforms in the 1980s led millions of people to leave their villages and migrate to cities, the work unit system fell apart. Migration also had a secondary effect: Cities filled up with strangers and pianzi."

cheapsteak 9y ago
I don't see any references to Cultural Revolution in that quote?
- nerdponx 9y ago
  I don't know your background, so I'm not sure if you're being coy or genuinely don't know. But the gist is: mass persecution, made possible by citizens spying on each other. OK fair, nobody has been singled out or publicly humiliated (yet), but it's the same setup. Forgive me if the Cultural Revolution means something different to you; I'm going based on the description given to me by one of my close friends, whose parents are from China and experienced it.
  - cheapsteak 9y ago
    Appreciate the benefit of doubt, I honestly didn't see a connection and thought you might have conflated Cultural Revolution with Communist Revolution. I think that I can understand where your interpretation came from, but wouldn't really draw that connection here Neighbors and friends and family "whistleblowing" each other to the government certainly was an aspect of Cultural Revolution, but it never really struck me as a distinctive/defining feature. The same things happened before Cultural Revolution as well (note that the time period pointed out in the article is 1949, which is the year Communist China was established and revolutionary zeal was high, but 17 years before the Cultural Revolution began), and the same tattling can also be found during McCarthy-era America, and briefly in post-9-11 America ("If You See Something, Say Something") The more defining features of the Cultural Revolution (at least to Chinese) is the persecution specifically of educated people (professors being harassed and shamed into committing suicide. "the more educated, the more reactionary"), the shunning of education (My grandpa had to shut the doors and teach his kids in secret at home, quite a risky move if anyone found out), the scheduled public demonstrations of loyalty to the party via everyone getting together to dance the loyalty dance every morning, and a dogmatic adherence to party lines, no rational or logic debate allowed (you will be shunned and reported). Don't really see those features in this policy.