38 ms·

Huh. I've never really had an issue because I chalked it up more to people buying cheap crap and expecting it to be good. But $65 for a pair of headphones isn't

by rconti 9y ago

Huh. I've never really had an issue because I chalked it up more to people buying cheap crap and expecting it to be good. But $65 for a pair of headphones isn't exactly cheap. Was it a familiar brand but maybe a counterfeit? Or was it a brand you've never heard of, but the price is justified by very positive reviews? I'm curious.

catdog 9y ago
Headphones seem to be a very strange category in general. You can get exceptional good value for money if you know what to buy and on the other hand pay a lot for utter crap.
- DanielleMolloy 9y ago
  Listening is extremely subjective though. Headphone types can be better / worse for certain listening habits (there are people out there who don't think great bass makes great music, folks), and for different ears. Music taste itself is extremely subjective. Best thing is still to get to a trusted hifi store nearby with your own, known music in best quality and your current best headphone model and test through candidate models yourself. (Admittedly, I'd still read some reviews before investing a few hundred dollars into headphones.)
  - ethbro 9y ago
    My current earbud benchmark is the Panasonic ErgoFit line. [1] To be fair, I don't use an external DAC or source high quality sound on the road. But for $10 and tolerable, good enough for travel. [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00E4LGVUO/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00E4LGVUO/
    - TsomArp 9y ago
      I use the same. After trying many options, is the one that fits the best.
    - DanielleMolloy 9y ago
      Can confirm - for everyday in-ears, these Panasonic in-ears are indeed good and durable. Cheap but surprisingly good end: Superlux HD668B (20-40$, as they got popular you may need to watch out for counterfeits). IMHO they are on par with some popular 200$ - 300$ Beyerdynamic / Sennheiser / AKG models. You may want to follow one of the online guides to replace the ear cup plastic with velour. Fakespot: A (90%) Expensive end: AudioQuest Nighthawk, 1st model. Their sound is unique and "purist audiophiles" may not like it, but they work pretty well with my listening habits; the experience has been pure joy so far and they are very comfortable. Fakespot: A (90%) Listening habits: Metal (symphonic-, power-, progressive-, i.e. complex and with classical music elements; e.g. Blind Guardian) and some Depeche Mode
    - vetinari 9y ago
      I swwear by Creative EP-630: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002EL4MXY https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002EL4MXY I don't even bother with any other earbuds.
  - derefr 9y ago
    > Headphone types can be better / worse for certain listening habits No they can't. Loudspeakers (of all kinds) can either faithfully convert electrical signals into the vibrations they represent, or they can't. Equalizer presets can be better / worse for certain listening habits. There is no reason, when even a $5 MP3 player has EQ presets, that headphones shouldn't be aiming for a flat frequency-response curve. Now, admittedly, there might be some preference axis between being able to faithfully replicate high amplitude signals, vs. having low impedance and therefore being kinder to the batteries of portable devices (and/or not requiring an extra in-line portable headphone amp.) But other than that one distinction, headphones can really only be "better" or "worse" at doing their one job.
    - brigade 9y ago
      For loudspeakers it's more complicated than a simple flat on-axis response; the dispersion into the room is critically important. Which in turn means that a flat frequency response curve is the wrong target for headphones designed to mimic good speakers, because a flat loudspeaker is not flat when measured at the ear, which is where headphone drivers are located. Harman has done some really interesting research on this - https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-target-response-curve-research-update https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-target-respo...
      - derefr 9y ago
        Good point, but I do wonder—is "full fidelity" really best defined as matching the sound profile of good speakers? Or is it better defined by e.g. whatever the sound engineer was hearing on their studio monitors when they finished the mastering process? That is: in most digital artistic media, the goal of the reproduction process is to faithfully carry across the art (and engineering) that "went in" on the other side. Listeners can tweak to their preference from there, but the baseline should be to replicate the work as the artist experiences it, rather than as the artist expects their audience to experience it. (An analogy: the "default", pre-choice-of-audience way to reproduce a painting shouldn't involve a frame and gallery wall, but rather should involve the painting standing alone as a canvas on an easel in a room in the same lighting conditions it was painted in.)
- RickS 9y ago
  My secret weapon for headphones is to buy pro audio/studio headphones. Their market just won't let them get away with gimmicks. If you want closed back (recommended for office listening - keeps noise in an out) get AKG k550/k553 (negligibly different editions of the same thing) If you want open back (scary accurate but bleeds sound like crazy) get a pair of Grados, the lower end ones like the 65 will do fine. I say this with love, but those headphones ruined some records for me. You can tell where they cut vocal takes on major label records because the noise floor drops. Crazy stuff.
jacek 9y ago
The brand is Bluedio. They have pretty good reviews considering the price. I have used Xiaomi before and was amazed by quality/price. I was hoping Bluedio, which is another Chinese brand would be also good. I was wrong. EDIT: Here's the fake review analysis for the headphones: https://www.fakespot.com/product/bluedio-f2-faith-active-noise-cancelling-over-ear-business-wireless-bluetooth-headphones-with-mic-black https://www.fakespot.com/product/bluedio-f2-faith-active-noi...
- nasredin 9y ago
  >Bluedio Sorry to be a bit of an asshole. Do not buy Chinese crap. It's a lottery. My Sennheisers (made of plastic BTW) have been in use since 2014. My previous Sennheisers broke (just the headband) after a couple of years. Bought $30 Taiwanese headphones, good Amazon reviews, but the headband is too small. And the microphonics is terrible. Sigh. Recently bought boots, Made in China. Size is about 1.5 units off. For a certain class of goods and for reasonable price points, you do get what you pay for.
  - jacek 9y ago
    That's true. Buying Chinese electronics is a lottery (usually). I would, however, recommend some Xiaomi products. They are really excellent considering the price. BTW I actually ended up buying Sennheiser headphones after I returned the crappy ones.
    - nasredin 9y ago
      Well the actual driver inside should last you a lifetime, the plasticky headband on the other hand... --- Also related: The Sennheisers branded ear pads or Brainwavz (IIRC) ear pads are a bit expensive ($20+). You can get generic "memory" foam ones on AliExpress for $4. It's not actually memory foam and they might send you the wrong type, and it's a tight fit (just remember to breathe !?) but they work.
  - slantyyz 9y ago
    >> Do not buy Chinese crap. It's a lottery. Most of the problematic products as they relate to reviews on Amazon are Chinese products. When I used to do incentivized reviews, all but one single company who approached me for a product review (this does not include eBook authors) was not Chinese. >> For a certain class of goods and for reasonable price points, you do get what you pay for. This is 100% true, but I find a lot of Chinese products punched above their weight. During my time reviewing, I turned down the cheap sketchy products and focused mainly on stuff that I wanted that looked like they were well made. And you know what, a lot of the products I got were actually fantastic relative to their selling price.
JonoBB 9y ago
Happens all the time. Last few times I've purchased electronics on Amazon that have been relatively recently listed (i.e 20 reviews or less), I've made a point of looking at the reviews. Click on first reviewer's name, and that reviewer has just happened to review 5 items all on the same day, and those are the only 5 items they have ever reviewed. And all 5 items are completely random (electronics, bed linen, garden equipment, clothing, etc). Rinse and repeat with second, third, fourth reviewer and a similar pattern arises. Majority of recently listed electronic items that I've been looking to purchase follow the same pattern.
- jonnycomputer 9y ago
  You just described my reviewing behavior, and mine are legitimate reviews. I buy a variety of products. My purchase history is listed in my account, and every once in a while I go and review a bunch of them at the same time, in reverse order of purchase because that's the order in which they appear.
dogruck 9y ago
Yeah, where I’m reading online reviews and sold statistics, I always have to mentally normalize for the fact that most people just buy the cheapest item. I wish sites like Amazon had a feature such as “people who buy similar quality items to you, also bought this...”
JonasJSchreiber 9y ago
>> $65 for a pair of headphones isn't exactly cheap For a headphone geek such as myself it is ;)

by rconti 9y ago

catdog 9y ago

Headphones seem to be a very strange category in general. You can get exceptional good value for money if you know what to buy and on the other hand pay a lot for utter crap.

DanielleMolloy 9y ago
Listening is extremely subjective though. Headphone types can be better / worse for certain listening habits (there are people out there who don't think great bass makes great music, folks), and for different ears. Music taste itself is extremely subjective. Best thing is still to get to a trusted hifi store nearby with your own, known music in best quality and your current best headphone model and test through candidate models yourself. (Admittedly, I'd still read some reviews before investing a few hundred dollars into headphones.)
- ethbro 9y ago
  My current earbud benchmark is the Panasonic ErgoFit line. [1] To be fair, I don't use an external DAC or source high quality sound on the road. But for $10 and tolerable, good enough for travel. [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00E4LGVUO/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00E4LGVUO/
  - TsomArp 9y ago
    I use the same. After trying many options, is the one that fits the best.
  - DanielleMolloy 9y ago
    Can confirm - for everyday in-ears, these Panasonic in-ears are indeed good and durable. Cheap but surprisingly good end: Superlux HD668B (20-40$, as they got popular you may need to watch out for counterfeits). IMHO they are on par with some popular 200$ - 300$ Beyerdynamic / Sennheiser / AKG models. You may want to follow one of the online guides to replace the ear cup plastic with velour. Fakespot: A (90%) Expensive end: AudioQuest Nighthawk, 1st model. Their sound is unique and "purist audiophiles" may not like it, but they work pretty well with my listening habits; the experience has been pure joy so far and they are very comfortable. Fakespot: A (90%) Listening habits: Metal (symphonic-, power-, progressive-, i.e. complex and with classical music elements; e.g. Blind Guardian) and some Depeche Mode
  - vetinari 9y ago
    I swwear by Creative EP-630: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002EL4MXY https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002EL4MXY I don't even bother with any other earbuds.
- derefr 9y ago
  > Headphone types can be better / worse for certain listening habits No they can't. Loudspeakers (of all kinds) can either faithfully convert electrical signals into the vibrations they represent, or they can't. Equalizer presets can be better / worse for certain listening habits. There is no reason, when even a $5 MP3 player has EQ presets, that headphones shouldn't be aiming for a flat frequency-response curve. Now, admittedly, there might be some preference axis between being able to faithfully replicate high amplitude signals, vs. having low impedance and therefore being kinder to the batteries of portable devices (and/or not requiring an extra in-line portable headphone amp.) But other than that one distinction, headphones can really only be "better" or "worse" at doing their one job.
  - brigade 9y ago
    For loudspeakers it's more complicated than a simple flat on-axis response; the dispersion into the room is critically important. Which in turn means that a flat frequency response curve is the wrong target for headphones designed to mimic good speakers, because a flat loudspeaker is not flat when measured at the ear, which is where headphone drivers are located. Harman has done some really interesting research on this - https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-target-response-curve-research-update https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-target-respo...
    - derefr 9y ago
      Good point, but I do wonder—is "full fidelity" really best defined as matching the sound profile of good speakers? Or is it better defined by e.g. whatever the sound engineer was hearing on their studio monitors when they finished the mastering process? That is: in most digital artistic media, the goal of the reproduction process is to faithfully carry across the art (and engineering) that "went in" on the other side. Listeners can tweak to their preference from there, but the baseline should be to replicate the work as the artist experiences it, rather than as the artist expects their audience to experience it. (An analogy: the "default", pre-choice-of-audience way to reproduce a painting shouldn't involve a frame and gallery wall, but rather should involve the painting standing alone as a canvas on an easel in a room in the same lighting conditions it was painted in.)
RickS 9y ago
My secret weapon for headphones is to buy pro audio/studio headphones. Their market just won't let them get away with gimmicks. If you want closed back (recommended for office listening - keeps noise in an out) get AKG k550/k553 (negligibly different editions of the same thing) If you want open back (scary accurate but bleeds sound like crazy) get a pair of Grados, the lower end ones like the 65 will do fine. I say this with love, but those headphones ruined some records for me. You can tell where they cut vocal takes on major label records because the noise floor drops. Crazy stuff.

jacek 9y ago

The brand is Bluedio. They have pretty good reviews considering the price. I have used Xiaomi before and was amazed by quality/price. I was hoping Bluedio, which is another Chinese brand would be also good. I was wrong. EDIT: Here's the fake review analysis for the headphones: https://www.fakespot.com/product/bluedio-f2-faith-active-noise-cancelling-over-ear-business-wireless-bluetooth-headphones-with-mic-black https://www.fakespot.com/product/bluedio-f2-faith-active-noi...

nasredin 9y ago
>Bluedio Sorry to be a bit of an asshole. Do not buy Chinese crap. It's a lottery. My Sennheisers (made of plastic BTW) have been in use since 2014. My previous Sennheisers broke (just the headband) after a couple of years. Bought $30 Taiwanese headphones, good Amazon reviews, but the headband is too small. And the microphonics is terrible. Sigh. Recently bought boots, Made in China. Size is about 1.5 units off. For a certain class of goods and for reasonable price points, you do get what you pay for.
- jacek 9y ago
  That's true. Buying Chinese electronics is a lottery (usually). I would, however, recommend some Xiaomi products. They are really excellent considering the price. BTW I actually ended up buying Sennheiser headphones after I returned the crappy ones.
  - nasredin 9y ago
    Well the actual driver inside should last you a lifetime, the plasticky headband on the other hand... --- Also related: The Sennheisers branded ear pads or Brainwavz (IIRC) ear pads are a bit expensive ($20+). You can get generic "memory" foam ones on AliExpress for $4. It's not actually memory foam and they might send you the wrong type, and it's a tight fit (just remember to breathe !?) but they work.
- slantyyz 9y ago
  >> Do not buy Chinese crap. It's a lottery. Most of the problematic products as they relate to reviews on Amazon are Chinese products. When I used to do incentivized reviews, all but one single company who approached me for a product review (this does not include eBook authors) was not Chinese. >> For a certain class of goods and for reasonable price points, you do get what you pay for. This is 100% true, but I find a lot of Chinese products punched above their weight. During my time reviewing, I turned down the cheap sketchy products and focused mainly on stuff that I wanted that looked like they were well made. And you know what, a lot of the products I got were actually fantastic relative to their selling price.

JonoBB 9y ago

Happens all the time. Last few times I've purchased electronics on Amazon that have been relatively recently listed (i.e 20 reviews or less), I've made a point of looking at the reviews. Click on first reviewer's name, and that reviewer has just happened to review 5 items all on the same day, and those are the only 5 items they have ever reviewed. And all 5 items are completely random (electronics, bed linen, garden equipment, clothing, etc). Rinse and repeat with second, third, fourth reviewer and a similar pattern arises. Majority of recently listed electronic items that I've been looking to purchase follow the same pattern.

jonnycomputer 9y ago
You just described my reviewing behavior, and mine are legitimate reviews. I buy a variety of products. My purchase history is listed in my account, and every once in a while I go and review a bunch of them at the same time, in reverse order of purchase because that's the order in which they appear.

dogruck 9y ago

Yeah, where I’m reading online reviews and sold statistics, I always have to mentally normalize for the fact that most people just buy the cheapest item. I wish sites like Amazon had a feature such as “people who buy similar quality items to you, also bought this...”

JonasJSchreiber 9y ago

>> $65 for a pair of headphones isn't exactly cheap For a headphone geek such as myself it is ;)