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1) Cars are accessible for wheelchair users (obviously they are modified for this purpose, which is less than you'd think) [1] [2] [3] 2) public transport is n

1) Cars are accessible for wheelchair users (obviously they are modified for this purpose, which is less than you'd think) [1] [2] [3] 2) public transport is not wheelchair accessible. We have trains from the 70s on the track, and aside from multiple steps and a gap, there are no places for wheelchairs. Buses are a little better, but not really usable either. When push comes to shove, this requires people to lift the wheelchair and put it on the train/bus, then help you on the bus as well. If bystanders don't do this, I guarantee out here the driver won't either. For trains, you are supremely unlikely to find anyone of the public transport companies in the station, and nobody helping wheelchair bound people on the bus. Plus, you never, ever see wheelchairs on the train. Note that if you look at the videos below you see that in most cases, disabled people need (much) more time to get aboard a vehicle. This is not available in public transport and is available in private cars. Furthermore, wheelchair users (as visible in the second video) (and obviously only up to a certain level of disability) are not just able to use cars, but are able to carry and move heavy loads using them, like groceries. So once again, an argument in favor of cars once a good look at reality is added to it. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0usQ1LksSA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0usQ1LksSA [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTuMw6rtsxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTuMw6rtsxA [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMvvQOeBDfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMvvQOeBDfY

Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
The fact you talk about “public transport” makes me think you’re British, in which case when you say > We have trains from the 70s on the track, and aside from multiple steps and a gap, there are no places for wheelchairs you’re wrong. The only 1970s train still in widespread use is the HST. These have generally been refitted with wheelchair spaces: it’s in carriage C on a GWR HST, for example. Besides, HSTs are being either replaced or hugely refurbished (power doors etc.) by 2020 - because really serious accessibility regulations come into force then (RVAR). Entire fleets of 80s trains (Pacers) are being scrapped because of this. The British railways are already good for accessibility, and getting much better.
TheCoelacanth 9y ago
Your whole argument is just trivially disprovable. Both trains and buses can be wheelchair accessible[1][2]. You don't need to lift the chair, you just roll it in, either up a slight incline in the case of buses or completely flat in the case of trains. No need for bystanders or station attendants to help. [1] https://cdn.londonandpartners.com/visit/london-organisations/transport-system/61162-640x360-tube-wheelchair-passenger.jpg https://cdn.londonandpartners.com/visit/london-organisations... [2] http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1TZlXmiSe3I/UTcdowZY8hI/AAAAAAAAH3w/ElegAi6c0pM/s1600/18119_430.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1TZlXmiSe3I/UTcdowZY8hI/AAAAAAAAH3...
- candiodari 9y ago
  Googling around a bit Dutch train: https://www.seat61.com/images/Russia-austrian-ext.jpg https://www.seat61.com/images/Russia-austrian-ext.jpg Swiss train: http://citytransport.info/Digi/3253.jpg http://citytransport.info/Digi/3253.jpg British train: https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Products-Services/Regional-Passenger-Trains/20 https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Products-Services/Regional-Pas... Eurostar: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/14/15/2C4DBFB700000578-3233815-The_e300s_have_been_redesigned_with_a_new_exterior_livery_as_wel-a-73_1442241349696.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/14/15/2C4DBFB70000057... (I've used these Eurostar trains. If you have to get on with a wheelchair ... good luck. It's frankly too hard for perfectly normal people and pretty much all young kids have a lot of trouble) Oh and as for London buses: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/driver-in-angry-confrontation-with-wheelchair-user-as-he-tries-to-board-london-bus-a3652516.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/driver-in-angry-co... I will generally agree that London is a positive exception. Mostly because everything else in Europe is utterly inaccessible for wheelchair users. Unfortunately, even with that there isn't all that much that is accessible. Let's just all sanely agree that obviously cars are a lot more wheelchair accessible than public transport, with a few small and limited exceptions. And even within those exceptions, public transport does not provide the services a car can give.
  - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
    That's not obvious at all. For cars to be accessible, the car needs to be designed to be accessible. For public transportation to be accessible, it needs to be designed to be accessible. The situations are identical. Here in the US, all public transportation is required by law to be wheelchair accessible. Perhaps Europe is different, but that is a decision that they have made, it is not an inherent limitation of public transportation. Cars are not inherently wheelchair friendly; they must be designed to accommodate them. Trains and buses are exactly the same. Here at least, public transport is much more accessible than private vehicles because all public transportation must be wheelchair accessible, but there is no such requirement for private vehicles.

Doctor_Fegg 9y ago

The fact you talk about “public transport” makes me think you’re British, in which case when you say > We have trains from the 70s on the track, and aside from multiple steps and a gap, there are no places for wheelchairs you’re wrong. The only 1970s train still in widespread use is the HST. These have generally been refitted with wheelchair spaces: it’s in carriage C on a GWR HST, for example. Besides, HSTs are being either replaced or hugely refurbished (power doors etc.) by 2020 - because really serious accessibility regulations come into force then (RVAR). Entire fleets of 80s trains (Pacers) are being scrapped because of this. The British railways are already good for accessibility, and getting much better.

TheCoelacanth 9y ago

Your whole argument is just trivially disprovable. Both trains and buses can be wheelchair accessible[1][2]. You don't need to lift the chair, you just roll it in, either up a slight incline in the case of buses or completely flat in the case of trains. No need for bystanders or station attendants to help. [1] https://cdn.londonandpartners.com/visit/london-organisations/transport-system/61162-640x360-tube-wheelchair-passenger.jpg https://cdn.londonandpartners.com/visit/london-organisations... [2] http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1TZlXmiSe3I/UTcdowZY8hI/AAAAAAAAH3w/ElegAi6c0pM/s1600/18119_430.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1TZlXmiSe3I/UTcdowZY8hI/AAAAAAAAH3...

candiodari 9y ago
Googling around a bit Dutch train: https://www.seat61.com/images/Russia-austrian-ext.jpg https://www.seat61.com/images/Russia-austrian-ext.jpg Swiss train: http://citytransport.info/Digi/3253.jpg http://citytransport.info/Digi/3253.jpg British train: https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Products-Services/Regional-Passenger-Trains/20 https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Products-Services/Regional-Pas... Eurostar: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/14/15/2C4DBFB700000578-3233815-The_e300s_have_been_redesigned_with_a_new_exterior_livery_as_wel-a-73_1442241349696.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/14/15/2C4DBFB70000057... (I've used these Eurostar trains. If you have to get on with a wheelchair ... good luck. It's frankly too hard for perfectly normal people and pretty much all young kids have a lot of trouble) Oh and as for London buses: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/driver-in-angry-confrontation-with-wheelchair-user-as-he-tries-to-board-london-bus-a3652516.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/driver-in-angry-co... I will generally agree that London is a positive exception. Mostly because everything else in Europe is utterly inaccessible for wheelchair users. Unfortunately, even with that there isn't all that much that is accessible. Let's just all sanely agree that obviously cars are a lot more wheelchair accessible than public transport, with a few small and limited exceptions. And even within those exceptions, public transport does not provide the services a car can give.
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  That's not obvious at all. For cars to be accessible, the car needs to be designed to be accessible. For public transportation to be accessible, it needs to be designed to be accessible. The situations are identical. Here in the US, all public transportation is required by law to be wheelchair accessible. Perhaps Europe is different, but that is a decision that they have made, it is not an inherent limitation of public transportation. Cars are not inherently wheelchair friendly; they must be designed to accommodate them. Trains and buses are exactly the same. Here at least, public transport is much more accessible than private vehicles because all public transportation must be wheelchair accessible, but there is no such requirement for private vehicles.