4 ms·

How about asking before kissing? It is not "embarrassing faux-pas" to kiss a woman who doesn't want it, it is violating their personal space.

xxs 9y ago
I suppose that's a joke comment or political correctness out control. Asking prior kissing is likely to kill any romance. The question itself may feel awkward (in my anecdotal 4 women survey). The guy would be considered not confident enough which is good enough reason to be rejected.
- kuro68k 9y ago
  If you are so concerned about romance you don't even have to ask with words. Just lean in slowly, so it's obvious what you want to do, and check their reaction. Tell us, how do you normally determine if she wants to have sex? Start dry humping her because you are embarrassed to ask?
- kerpele 9y ago
  Wow. I can't tell if you're a middle-schooler, a troll or Milo. If asking is enough to kill romance then it needs to die in that instance. Try again with someone else and if that someone else actually likes you they'll just think of you as considerate.
- comstock 9y ago
  If that’s the case then those women are part of the problem. Some people act like the social dynamic where men are sexually agressive is solely the responsibility of men. Most surveys I’ve seen suggest that the majority of women expect men to make the first move (always). This leads to an environment where men are to a degree trained to be sexually agressive. This doesn’t excuse male behavior. But the road to a more balanced society likely requires changes on both sides.
- lsc 9y ago
  Let us compare this to another crime. So I sometimes keep my wallet on my desk, yes? If some rando comes by and helps themselves to some cash, that's a crime, right? But I'm totally okay with my partner doing that, and there's one or two other people I'd be okay with, too. It is not a crime if one of those people takes the money out of my wallet. But, as it's my wallet, I get to decide who has that privilege. Note, this depends on how I feel, as it's my wallet. Some people would never be okay with others taking money without asking. For me, at least, there's a small group of people I'd be okay with taking my money without asking. Now, let us postulate that you think you are in that group with wallet access, but further postulate that you, in fact, are not. You think that I like you more than I actually like you. Even so, if you "confidently" grab money out of my wallet without asking, you are committing a crime, even if someone else performing the exact same action, someone I liked more, would not be committing a crime. My point here is not to compare kisses to property, of course, but to point out that there are other places in criminal law where the perceptions of the victim and only the perceptions of the victim determine if it is a crime or not. In most of these cases, there's a strong default; by default, it's my wallet, and you can't take the money out without my say-so. By default, it's my body, and you can't touch it in a sexual way without my say so. Yes, you can make your assumptions as to your status, and if you are correct? that's cool. But you do so at your own risk. If you don't want to take that risk, you are free to ask.
  - MandieD 9y ago
    That's a really great metaphor, and really great advice. The next time I deal with a man bemoaning how tricky #metoo has made life, I will put this example to him. If you're not really sure, don't take the risk - ask before taking cash or initiating more an a handshake.
- vorotato 9y ago
  If asking kills the romance then clearly they don't actually have feelings for you. Speaking as someone who asked, and has had fantastic success.
bfred_it 9y ago
Do you really want to ask someone if they want to kiss? What are we becoming? How close are we "Please sign this contract to initiate physical contact"?
- kerpele 9y ago
  Yes I do. It's called basic decency, and attitudes like yours are a big part of why we are in this mess.
  - bfred_it 9y ago
    There are ways to gauge interest without asking. The classic "getting 70% closer and letting the other person kiss" is one way. I'm not saying people should be able to kiss someone out of the blue, but if it feels like the other person is interested (for example if they reciprocated your flirting) then I don't see the issue with trying. I did ask for a kiss more than once when I was socially inept; it killed the mood every time. Never again. The same people I asked came around later and I had meaningful relationships with them. So don't tell me "attitude like yours" Edit: I should add that different people have different ways to see it, I get that. For example some women might like being asked if they want to split the bill, seeing it as a sign of respect, others might not like it at all. So one has to decide case by case.
adamcharnock 9y ago
To me this is a serious comment. In my social circles asking before kissing is the norm. I too thought it would kill the romance, but if anything it amplifies it. In asking you show vulnerability, show that you respect the other person, and when the other person agrees it is pretty great. FWIW - I wouldn't normally say "can I kiss you", I'd normally say something like "Sooo, I'd like to kiss you now" (assuming we'd be chatting for a while). And they'd respond along the lines of "I'd like that too", or "No, but thank you". There is also a secret to be had here – As a man dating women, seeking consent is a secret weapon. It may feel weird to do, but my experience is that women respond exceptionally well to it. As an example, I think the gender balance of our social circles has changed over the last few years. I often find myself to be the only guy around the dinner table. Get consent, treat women as the human beings they are and things will go pretty well. PS. Also, asking is so much easier. Much less dancing around the subject. EDIT: Should probably have been in reply to the the child comment.
- vostok 9y ago
  Even literally asking "can I kiss you" doesn't have to kill the mood. For instance you can whisper it in your love interest's ear rather than bellow it from across the room. I admit that I have rarely verbally asked, but I think I will do so the next time I have the opportunity to kiss someone outside of my long term relationship. That said, I think you can ask nonverbally as well.

xxs 9y ago

I suppose that's a joke comment or political correctness out control. Asking prior kissing is likely to kill any romance. The question itself may feel awkward (in my anecdotal 4 women survey). The guy would be considered not confident enough which is good enough reason to be rejected.

kuro68k 9y ago
If you are so concerned about romance you don't even have to ask with words. Just lean in slowly, so it's obvious what you want to do, and check their reaction. Tell us, how do you normally determine if she wants to have sex? Start dry humping her because you are embarrassed to ask?
kerpele 9y ago
Wow. I can't tell if you're a middle-schooler, a troll or Milo. If asking is enough to kill romance then it needs to die in that instance. Try again with someone else and if that someone else actually likes you they'll just think of you as considerate.
comstock 9y ago
If that’s the case then those women are part of the problem. Some people act like the social dynamic where men are sexually agressive is solely the responsibility of men. Most surveys I’ve seen suggest that the majority of women expect men to make the first move (always). This leads to an environment where men are to a degree trained to be sexually agressive. This doesn’t excuse male behavior. But the road to a more balanced society likely requires changes on both sides.
lsc 9y ago
Let us compare this to another crime. So I sometimes keep my wallet on my desk, yes? If some rando comes by and helps themselves to some cash, that's a crime, right? But I'm totally okay with my partner doing that, and there's one or two other people I'd be okay with, too. It is not a crime if one of those people takes the money out of my wallet. But, as it's my wallet, I get to decide who has that privilege. Note, this depends on how I feel, as it's my wallet. Some people would never be okay with others taking money without asking. For me, at least, there's a small group of people I'd be okay with taking my money without asking. Now, let us postulate that you think you are in that group with wallet access, but further postulate that you, in fact, are not. You think that I like you more than I actually like you. Even so, if you "confidently" grab money out of my wallet without asking, you are committing a crime, even if someone else performing the exact same action, someone I liked more, would not be committing a crime. My point here is not to compare kisses to property, of course, but to point out that there are other places in criminal law where the perceptions of the victim and only the perceptions of the victim determine if it is a crime or not. In most of these cases, there's a strong default; by default, it's my wallet, and you can't take the money out without my say-so. By default, it's my body, and you can't touch it in a sexual way without my say so. Yes, you can make your assumptions as to your status, and if you are correct? that's cool. But you do so at your own risk. If you don't want to take that risk, you are free to ask.
- MandieD 9y ago
  That's a really great metaphor, and really great advice. The next time I deal with a man bemoaning how tricky #metoo has made life, I will put this example to him. If you're not really sure, don't take the risk - ask before taking cash or initiating more an a handshake.
vorotato 9y ago
If asking kills the romance then clearly they don't actually have feelings for you. Speaking as someone who asked, and has had fantastic success.

bfred_it 9y ago

Do you really want to ask someone if they want to kiss? What are we becoming? How close are we "Please sign this contract to initiate physical contact"?

kerpele 9y ago
Yes I do. It's called basic decency, and attitudes like yours are a big part of why we are in this mess.
- bfred_it 9y ago
  There are ways to gauge interest without asking. The classic "getting 70% closer and letting the other person kiss" is one way. I'm not saying people should be able to kiss someone out of the blue, but if it feels like the other person is interested (for example if they reciprocated your flirting) then I don't see the issue with trying. I did ask for a kiss more than once when I was socially inept; it killed the mood every time. Never again. The same people I asked came around later and I had meaningful relationships with them. So don't tell me "attitude like yours" Edit: I should add that different people have different ways to see it, I get that. For example some women might like being asked if they want to split the bill, seeing it as a sign of respect, others might not like it at all. So one has to decide case by case.

adamcharnock 9y ago

To me this is a serious comment. In my social circles asking before kissing is the norm. I too thought it would kill the romance, but if anything it amplifies it. In asking you show vulnerability, show that you respect the other person, and when the other person agrees it is pretty great. FWIW - I wouldn't normally say "can I kiss you", I'd normally say something like "Sooo, I'd like to kiss you now" (assuming we'd be chatting for a while). And they'd respond along the lines of "I'd like that too", or "No, but thank you". There is also a secret to be had here – As a man dating women, seeking consent is a secret weapon. It may feel weird to do, but my experience is that women respond exceptionally well to it. As an example, I think the gender balance of our social circles has changed over the last few years. I often find myself to be the only guy around the dinner table. Get consent, treat women as the human beings they are and things will go pretty well. PS. Also, asking is so much easier. Much less dancing around the subject. EDIT: Should probably have been in reply to the the child comment.

vostok 9y ago
Even literally asking "can I kiss you" doesn't have to kill the mood. For instance you can whisper it in your love interest's ear rather than bellow it from across the room. I admit that I have rarely verbally asked, but I think I will do so the next time I have the opportunity to kiss someone outside of my long term relationship. That said, I think you can ask nonverbally as well.