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Female Congressional Candidate Ends Run After Being Accused of Sexual Harassment
- brailsafe 9y ago> "We are in a national moment where rough justice stands in place of careful analysis, nuance and due process." Accurate.
- rectang 9y agoIt's progress. Heretofore those who are subject to sexual abuse have been forced to accept countless injustices. Now accused abusers are subject to the occasional injustice. For an example of worse-than-rough-justice, consider the monumental backlog of unprocessed rape kits in this country.
- photik 9y agoIt's progress in the way euthanasia cures cancer.
- rectang 9y agoThings probably have to get worse before they get better. People have been able to ignore the issue for too long. Now the suffering is spreading a tiny bit and those who would rather not confront the agony of others are being forced to.
- kuro68k 9y agoGive us one example of someone wrongly punished who was denied due process. The example in the link is flat out wrong. See my comment above.
- naturalgradient 9y agoA relevant take on the metoo debate, although is contains some rather contentious points: https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/12/06/the-warlock-hunt/ https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/12/06/the-warlock... 'Several cases recently in the headlines are simply baffling. They do not involve the workplace—or vast discrepancies in power—at all. Perhaps there is more to the story, but from what I’ve read, the improprieties committed by the UK’s (now former) Defense Secretary Michael Fallon amount to this: He kissed a journalist—not his employee, and not someone over whom he had power, but another adult in another profession—fifteen years ago. What transmogrified Fallon’s kiss to a crime that cost him his career were these words, and only these words: “I felt humiliated, ashamed.” Had the object of his affection said, “I felt flattered,” there would be no offense. ' I think the chilling effect is already here now. Nobody will say it, nobody would admit to it and commit career suicide, but I have no doubt countless startups, corps, research groups will just not hire any women in the wake of this debate. I am a PhD student and it makes me think about teaching female undergrads at all or taking them on for projects. If I meet female undergrads for teaching, it's already only in public places in the department, never in my office or an actual teaching room. I am not the type who would ever make lewd comments, or anything of the sort, but it does not matter. There are no bonus points for being a good guy, an 'ally'.
- tyingq 9y agoI think that's a valid concern. It tends to be be dismissed these days because the balance was shifted so far away from real victims. The pendulum will likely adjust a bit soon. It is a bit over the top right now. I was recently chided for giving a female acquaintance a weak, "side hug" instead of a "real hug". Probably prompted by a subconscious idea that I need to be careful about that kind of thing.
- kuro68k 9y agoIn this case the author of the article made an incorrect assumption. There was an imbalance of power. Journalists need access to politicians to do their jobs. They need professional relationships, they need to be at meetings and press events. To an extent they have to humour politicians, and Fallon apparently mistook that for an invitation to kiss her. The pendulum needs to swing a bit further yet I'm afraid.
- bluetonium 9y agoIt's become Schrödinger's social norms. Keeping your distance? For the exact same social context that could be (A) not invading a woman's space or putting her in an uncomfortable situation or (B) a harmful approach fueled by a paranoic attitude that is unfair to womens' careers. It could be either until a woman observer collapses the wave function.
- jstanley 9y agoWhy risk it? For the same reason Islamic extremists shouldn't make you fear all Muslims. A sense of decency and fairness. Edit: you edited your post to remove "why risk it?" which makes my reply look nonsensical.
- Veen 9y ago> For the same reason Islamic extremists shouldn't make you fear all Muslims Indeed. And by that same reasoning the fact that a small minority of men behave atrociously shouldn't cast suspicion on all men or empower people to overgeneralize about toxic masculinity or rape culture. Nor should being accused of an offense be considered equivalent to being guilty of an offense (as in this case)
- hguhghuff 9y agoMcCarthy.
- mgiannopoulos 9y agoFrom the article > According to the Kansas Star, the company reached a settlement with the former employee who had made the allegation, Gary Funkhouser. < A financial settlement means that there was some basis to the allegations. The fact that she was not convicted does not mean much in a political environment where we need more people with a higher set of standards.
- insickness 9y ago> A financial settlement means that there was some basis to the allegations. Absolutely not true. Being accused of misconduct can ruin a person's life and it can be better to settle rather than fight it. There are plenty of innocent people who have accepted plea bargains as well.
- mgiannopoulos 9y agoApple vs oranges. Being offered a financial settlement to drop a complaint is the exact opposite of accepting a plea bargain.
- tyingq 9y agoThey are both risk management decisions, so I don't get the "exact opposite" explanation. I suspect it cuts both ways. Some cases were buyouts for obvious bad behavior, and some cases were more like trumped up extortion. I don't know that there's a credible source for how often it's one vs the other.
- Veen 9y ago> A financial settlement means that there was some basis to the allegations. It means nothing of the sort. It just means that the business decided the cost of fighting the case was likely to outweigh the cost of settling.
- mgiannopoulos 9y agoUsually it is the company that has more resources at its disposal, not the employee
- multibit 9y ago'In a statement, a spokeswoman for the DCCC, Meredith Kelly, "Members and candidates must all be held to the highest standard. If anyone is guilty of sexual harassment or sexual assault, that person should not hold public office.' Their position is clear here: being accused is being guilty.
- icebraining 9y agoNo, it's very much not clear. You're reading an implication from a single line quoted from a full email.
- paul7986 9y agoI recently stood up for a female colleagues harassment by their manager. I am male and a few months after I privately reported what I witnessed I started to get harassed and then was forced out. That was towards the middle of this summer and Ive been trying to land my next job in the same local industry but anomalously am having trouble finding my next gig. I'm not sure what avenues I have as I should still be working there & in my field, but since I reported a manager's harassment I am a problem that needs to go & am suffering?
- throwawayopine 9y agoThere are many interesting comments in this thread, and I think the posters (men) who are opining in specifically this thread are doing so in a safe place: under a story about sexual harrassment by a female politician. As a man, I can say with certainty that what women want conflicts. This is because there is not just 1 woman in the world, with 1 opinion. Women are different and want and require different things. Women, like men, also adapt to workplace and political policies, the sentiment in the air. These policies do not exist. There is not a single sane, normative guideline anyone can read anywhere on Earth. It's a joke. Reading about sexual politics is like Googling how to do cocaine or something. Obviously people do it all over the world but it's a vastly illegal thing that if discussed anywhere is in hushed voices, and very dangerous to talk about. I am not going to give any of my opinions here but if you want to take one thing from my comment it's "Nobody is right, when everyone is wrong." Everyone (men and women) who is a hackernews reader is a genius scientist who is among the smartest people on Earth. Let's identify that we do not have good algorithms, that fairly get men and women what they want, need, and benefit from, privately, professionally, sexually, romantically, without putting anyone at risk of something negative. I can directly quote asking (anonymously over the Internet) two similar, professional women the same question and getting two opposite normative answers. Our "emotional intelligence" isn't necessarily the highest as programmers and hackers, it is less social than some fields, so we are at a disadvantage coming up with the correct policies. On the other hand we're smarter and fairer, and want a better world, we're way better than the rest of the Internet and society. Whatever we want and build becomes the fabric of society just a few years later. We don't know what we want, the data conflicts, we can't talk about it. It's a huge problem.
- binarray2000 9y agoAs someone who loves his female cousins (I call them sisters) and their daughters and as someone who treats his wife as an equal partner (my philosophy: "Man and woman are two wings of the same bird.") I am all for both sexes being protected from any kind of harassment. Yes, and the media must talk about it (especially, when children and minors are harmed). BUT... As an outsider to the USA (I live in Europe), I cannot believe what I see in the US media. Basically, all you can read about is three topics (in no particular order): (1) Trump is guilty for EVERYTHING (2) Russia is guilty for EVERYTHING (3) Sexual harassment It looks (off the top of my head): - as if the USA is not fighting numerous wars - as if the US troops are not in almost every country on the globe - as if the federal debt is now not over 20.000 billion - as if military budget is now not almost 700 billion - as if bridges are not falling and as if infrastructure is not crumbling - as if the whole society is not in all kinds of (deep) debt - as if there is no lead and mercury in tap water in numerous municipalities - as if many cities and municipalities are not bankrupt - as if banks and other financial institutions are not ripping the US society - as if corporations are not ripping the US society (latest rip: net neutrality) - as if there is not less freedoms (of the press, of the expression, of movement [TSA]) - as if everyone has a medical insurance - as if everyone has access to free college education - as if there are no race riots - as if there are no tent cities - as if, as if, as if... Can someone from the USA explain this to me: - Is there critical mass concerned with the latter stuff or is almost everyone concerned with Trump, Russia and sexual harassment? - If the latter stuff is of more concern for the people, why do the elected representatives (who get elected and re-elected by their constituents) not broach about it? Thank you.
- falcolas 9y agoSexual harassment gets more viewership. It's salacious - sex sells very well in our puritanical nation. US in debt? Old news. We've been in serious debt for years. Troops in every country? We're there to help "spread freedom." News is a business, and like so many other businesses these days, they're more interested in short term profit over long term sustainability. Yeah, it's terrible. Yeah, the US has a lot more problems than our current president and the actions of a vast minority of people. You won't read that in a for-profit newspaper though.
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- Overtonwindow 9y agoRelevant: https://xkcd.com/642/ https://xkcd.com/642/