5 ms·

>Someone tell me why, apart from the principles and precedents of it all, any of this matters? Like you, I feel I might not understand this in its entirety, bu

>Someone tell me why, apart from the principles and precedents of it all, any of this matters? Like you, I feel I might not understand this in its entirety, but I think the answer is...face saving. It’s counterintuitive but I believe these words are being banned from the budget to allow both parties to pass a maximum CDC budget which may be controversial politically for the GOP to pass and they might otherwise not support. For example, if these words were not censored than you would have an electorate/media (more importantly tea party/primary opponents) that would be able to point at the elected GOP and question why they would pass a budget that includes research for transgender issues, research on fetuses, supporting science based research (rather than faith based), etc... My understanding is the money would still be allocated and budgeted to support all the same issues (which is good). If my interpretation is correct, it might not be so far off from a budget to combat extreme Islam (drones, intelligence, secret courts, etc...) but censoring that phrase publicly because it allows some face saving for political purpose.

colordrops 9y ago
This is an interesting use of the term "face saving". I typically understood it to mean trying to maintain perceptions rather than a way to execute an underhanded agenda.
- smallnamespace 9y ago
  As a person of Chinese descent who grew up in America, face saving has no general negative connotation in Chinese culture -- but the fact that you think it does is very interesting. (EDIT: misread your comment, but this applies to GP) I've observed that face saving behavior at all levels of society in America, but very few instances of people willing to point it out or discuss it, except sometimes to accuse people of 'covering up bad behavior'. When you visit someone's house and they serve you food and ask if you liked it, unhesitatingly saying 'yes' is face saving and also just simple good manners. When your boss makes a bad decision but you don't call them out in the next team meeting, and instead first bring it up in private, that is face saving. You're trying to avoid openly embarrassing someone and reducing their social standing. In this case, face-saving just makes sense -- let's get a budget deal passed (which is in everyone's best interests), and then mollify the crazies in the base who refuse to see it that way. I guess pointing out face-saving in the US is itself potentially embarrassing, because it implies that person might actually be worried about their social standing, which can itself negatively affect their social standing?
  - colordrops 9y ago
    I think you misread my comment. I was saying that I thought it didn't have negative meaning, but that the person I responded to did.
    - nostrademons 9y ago
      I didn't actually see a negative connotation in either of your posts.
  - brazzledazzle 9y ago
    Your conclusion seems fairly accurate. I think it's weighs more heavily toward a concern about the appearance of weakness rather than social standing though.
    - lsc 9y ago
      My perception is that the appearance of strength is intertwined with social standing in America. (I'm not saying it isn't elsewhere, just that it is here.)
  - austincheney 9y ago
    The reason for this cultural paradox is because face-saving is associated with dishonesty. That is that the behavior is not aligned with the spoken motive. This is interesting to see, because this sort of dishonesty is common in American culture where the values are primarily kindness and productivity. I find it interesting from my perspective as long time military guy where in the military subculture honesty is highly valued and kindness is not (it is just rolled into respect or otherwise ignored in favor of other virtues).
- norikki 9y ago
  I think will_brown is saying that Trump wants to fund science-based pro-diversity research on fetuses and transvestites while appearing not to fund it in order to trick his base into supporting him, which is saving face because it is quite obvious that he will still fund said research, but he can pretend he didn't know.
sstone1 9y ago
What does either of these words have to do with face saving or combating extreme Islam groups these are words used to describe things such as medical research and cures and programs to help people in need these words have nothing to do with combating extreme Islam groups you make absolutely no sense at all. Vulnerable Entitlement Diversity Transgender Fetus Evidence-based Science-based

colordrops 9y ago

This is an interesting use of the term "face saving". I typically understood it to mean trying to maintain perceptions rather than a way to execute an underhanded agenda.

smallnamespace 9y ago
As a person of Chinese descent who grew up in America, face saving has no general negative connotation in Chinese culture -- but the fact that you think it does is very interesting. (EDIT: misread your comment, but this applies to GP) I've observed that face saving behavior at all levels of society in America, but very few instances of people willing to point it out or discuss it, except sometimes to accuse people of 'covering up bad behavior'. When you visit someone's house and they serve you food and ask if you liked it, unhesitatingly saying 'yes' is face saving and also just simple good manners. When your boss makes a bad decision but you don't call them out in the next team meeting, and instead first bring it up in private, that is face saving. You're trying to avoid openly embarrassing someone and reducing their social standing. In this case, face-saving just makes sense -- let's get a budget deal passed (which is in everyone's best interests), and then mollify the crazies in the base who refuse to see it that way. I guess pointing out face-saving in the US is itself potentially embarrassing, because it implies that person might actually be worried about their social standing, which can itself negatively affect their social standing?
- colordrops 9y ago
  I think you misread my comment. I was saying that I thought it didn't have negative meaning, but that the person I responded to did.
  - nostrademons 9y ago
    I didn't actually see a negative connotation in either of your posts.
- brazzledazzle 9y ago
  Your conclusion seems fairly accurate. I think it's weighs more heavily toward a concern about the appearance of weakness rather than social standing though.
  - lsc 9y ago
    My perception is that the appearance of strength is intertwined with social standing in America. (I'm not saying it isn't elsewhere, just that it is here.)
- austincheney 9y ago
  The reason for this cultural paradox is because face-saving is associated with dishonesty. That is that the behavior is not aligned with the spoken motive. This is interesting to see, because this sort of dishonesty is common in American culture where the values are primarily kindness and productivity. I find it interesting from my perspective as long time military guy where in the military subculture honesty is highly valued and kindness is not (it is just rolled into respect or otherwise ignored in favor of other virtues).
norikki 9y ago
I think will_brown is saying that Trump wants to fund science-based pro-diversity research on fetuses and transvestites while appearing not to fund it in order to trick his base into supporting him, which is saving face because it is quite obvious that he will still fund said research, but he can pretend he didn't know.

sstone1 9y ago

What does either of these words have to do with face saving or combating extreme Islam groups these are words used to describe things such as medical research and cures and programs to help people in need these words have nothing to do with combating extreme Islam groups you make absolutely no sense at all. Vulnerable Entitlement Diversity Transgender Fetus Evidence-based Science-based