4 ms·

Let's be clear here. We're not talking about where to eat lunch or controversial scientific theories, a la Galileo or Darwin. We're talking about "is race X s

Let's be clear here. We're not talking about where to eat lunch or controversial scientific theories, a la Galileo or Darwin. We're talking about "is race X smarter than race Y", "is gender X smarter than Y". Bigoted ideas. Some have been comfortable espousing bigoted views. Now they are forced to think about what they say and how they say it. As a white man, this has affected my own behavior (for the better IMO): I've been forced to be more thoughtful of others. The Paradox of Tolerance shows we must be intolerant of such bigotry.

ghostcluster 9y ago
Evidence and scientific inquiry are not bigotry.
- strangecasts 9y ago
  Conclusions can be.
ThrowawayR2 9y ago
> We're talking about "is race X smarter than race Y", "is gender X smarter than Y". Bigoted ideas. Let's hypothetically say that a sapient alien species, with the full range of emotions and thoughts a human being can have, was discovered that was also demonstrably not as smart as human beings after centuries of scientific study. Would saying "humans are smarter than these aliens" be bigoted? Flip it around. If different sapient aliens were demonstrated to be more intelligent than human beings by an order of magnitude, would it be bigoted to say "These other aliens are smarter than humans."? In other words, can facts be bigoted? > The Paradox of Tolerance shows we must be intolerant of such bigotry. Must we? If you've studied the paradox of tolerance, you should know that it has no universally agreed upon answer.
- bobthechef 9y ago
  I don't have a dog in this fight, but what irks me is how, on the one hand, one can claim to accept evolution, a process that works precisely by variation and natural selection, and at the same time rule out, not the actuality, but the very possibility IN PRINCIPLE that there can ever be statistically significant sexual or ethnic variation. If you are of a secularist, materialist bent, you are absolutely bound to accept that possibility lest you fall into holding incoherent beliefs. To be clear, I am neither rejecting evolution nor advocating racism or sexism. I am merely pointing out that secularism-materialism binds you to accept the very real possibility of things being true about sex, race, ethnicity, etc, that those holding secularist, materialistic views categorically and in principle reject (at least verbally, if not in action) as a matter of principle even though they are bound BY THE VERY PRINCIPLES THEY CLAIM TO HOLD to accept these things as possibilities, if not present actualities. This is but one of many absurdities in vogue in circles like the SV circuit and its allies. You can't have your cake and eat it, too, and you can be sure that repeating mantras and going on the offensive only works for so long. You have to reexamine your foundational beliefs. The truth will, sooner or later, exact its revenge and come for its pound of flesh. The tension forces of contradiction will cause the facade to cave no matter how much stucco you use to conceal the growing cracks.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
Veelox 9y ago
>"is race X smarter than race Y" That is one way to phrase the question. Another way to phrase the question is "what are the average IQs of the races in the USA and why are they different?" This question can be used as a starting point to help change things so that those who are below average can be helped. The above is a question that I would not bring up in my workplace for fear of being fired. That is why there is an article called "Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley."
- will_hughes 9y ago
  That's because IQ tests arn't tests of intelligence, just tests of how well you know certain information and skills.

ghostcluster 9y ago

Evidence and scientific inquiry are not bigotry.

strangecasts 9y ago
Conclusions can be.

ThrowawayR2 9y ago

> We're talking about "is race X smarter than race Y", "is gender X smarter than Y". Bigoted ideas. Let's hypothetically say that a sapient alien species, with the full range of emotions and thoughts a human being can have, was discovered that was also demonstrably not as smart as human beings after centuries of scientific study. Would saying "humans are smarter than these aliens" be bigoted? Flip it around. If different sapient aliens were demonstrated to be more intelligent than human beings by an order of magnitude, would it be bigoted to say "These other aliens are smarter than humans."? In other words, can facts be bigoted? > The Paradox of Tolerance shows we must be intolerant of such bigotry. Must we? If you've studied the paradox of tolerance, you should know that it has no universally agreed upon answer.

bobthechef 9y ago
I don't have a dog in this fight, but what irks me is how, on the one hand, one can claim to accept evolution, a process that works precisely by variation and natural selection, and at the same time rule out, not the actuality, but the very possibility IN PRINCIPLE that there can ever be statistically significant sexual or ethnic variation. If you are of a secularist, materialist bent, you are absolutely bound to accept that possibility lest you fall into holding incoherent beliefs. To be clear, I am neither rejecting evolution nor advocating racism or sexism. I am merely pointing out that secularism-materialism binds you to accept the very real possibility of things being true about sex, race, ethnicity, etc, that those holding secularist, materialistic views categorically and in principle reject (at least verbally, if not in action) as a matter of principle even though they are bound BY THE VERY PRINCIPLES THEY CLAIM TO HOLD to accept these things as possibilities, if not present actualities. This is but one of many absurdities in vogue in circles like the SV circuit and its allies. You can't have your cake and eat it, too, and you can be sure that repeating mantras and going on the offensive only works for so long. You have to reexamine your foundational beliefs. The truth will, sooner or later, exact its revenge and come for its pound of flesh. The tension forces of contradiction will cause the facade to cave no matter how much stucco you use to conceal the growing cracks.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

Veelox 9y ago

>"is race X smarter than race Y" That is one way to phrase the question. Another way to phrase the question is "what are the average IQs of the races in the USA and why are they different?" This question can be used as a starting point to help change things so that those who are below average can be helped. The above is a question that I would not bring up in my workplace for fear of being fired. That is why there is an article called "Stuff You Can't Say in Silicon Valley."

will_hughes 9y ago
That's because IQ tests arn't tests of intelligence, just tests of how well you know certain information and skills.