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Bitcoin uses proof-of-work for its consensus system, but not all cryptocurrencies do. Bitcoin is a technological wonder, but it's ultimately not as advanced as

Bitcoin uses proof-of-work for its consensus system, but not all cryptocurrencies do. Bitcoin is a technological wonder, but it's ultimately not as advanced as its younger brethren. The Stellar Consensus Protocol, which MobileCoin say they're using, uses something more akin to a web of trust rather than proof-of-work. You do not need the SGX to get rid of proof-of-work.

eternalban 9y ago
> Bitcoin is a technological wonder Oh, dear lord. > ultimately not as advanced as its younger brethren. These must then be simply out of this world. Superwonder technologies. Double digit transactions per second!! /$ The hype around this piece of software is getting out of hand.
- hossbeast 9y ago
  Perhaps you do not understand it's revolutionary aspects.
  - pishpash 9y ago
    Nothing revolutionary about distributed consensus. It was the 2008 financial crisis that brought the anti-banking crowd into frenzy, seeing all sorts of claimed benefits in using this sort of thing for money. They would have been goldbugs or tulip collectors under other circumstances. Or do you mean the revolutionary scamming techniques never seen before? /s
    - tylersmith 9y ago
      Trustless Byzantine fault tolerant decentralized consensus as long as < 50% of participants are not acting in concert. That _is_ revolutionary.
      - amscanne 9y ago
        Not consensus, probabilistic consensus. And not 50% of participants, 50% of computing power. Those are critical distinctions.
        darawk 9y ago
        But distinctions that make it no less revolutionary.
        pishpash 9y ago
        Probabilistic consensus was not known before bitcoin? Somehow I highly doubt it.
        kolinko 9y ago
        One that was resistant to sybil attacks? Bitcoin was the first system to do that as far as I know. Before bitcoin you would be unable to create a virtual currency without a central authority. Satoshi's algorithm was a new invention in 2009, although it's parts - like proof of Work - were invented in 1990s.
        darawk 9y ago
        Probabilistic, byzantine fault tolerant consensus was absolutely not known before Bitcoin.
        eternalban 9y ago
        Exactly. Consensus by brute force. It is a curiously anti-democratic design.
  - JohnStrange 9y ago
    Bitcoin and other crypto coins are a neat idea until their underlying cryptographic primitives are broken. Then they will immediately loose all of their value. Every cryptosystem of the past has been broken at some time.
    - loblollyboy 9y ago
      Bitcoin has problems but I really don’t think that is one of them https://www.quora.com/Has-the-Bitcoin-blockchain-itself-ever-been-hacked https://www.quora.com/Has-the-Bitcoin-blockchain-itself-ever...
    - oarsinsync 9y ago
      Indeed. The coin is only as strong as it's cryptography, and given enough time, all ciphers can and will be broken. Until that happens, there's still money to be made!
      - tatersolid 9y ago
        > and given enough time, all ciphers can and will be broken Not all ciphers... 3DES and GOST have no practical breaks after 40 years of cryptanalysis (all attacks have > 2^100 time or memory complexity) Any secure modern 256 bit symmetric primitive is likely safe from large quantum computers. What will continue to be be broken are encryption protocols and systems that misuse modern secure 256-bit primitives. So we will continue to see things like the BEAST attack because non-cryptographers continue to invent their own encryption protocols with alarming frequency.
- sametmax 9y ago
  I read that like: "a stone wheel ? man it's not revolutionary at all. It's heavy. And hard to make. It's not practical and currently unusable for real purposes." Said by a guy you just witness the historical invention of the wheel.
  - eternalban 9y ago
    Just witnessed? I knew about bitcoin long before you did. I assure you of that. About the wheel. Rolling friction is less than sliding friction... Regrettably that point is probably over your head. +1 for your ad hom.
  - eternalban 9y ago
    point 1: The wheel was, in fact, one of the first instances of a centralized structure replacing an inefficieint distributed structure. The central "hub" of a wheel bears the load and the "edge condition" is the substantially reduced "rolling friction". This is in contrast to ye old "distributed load" way of a zillion poor slaves pulling a load. So as far as the "wheel" goes, VISA is a chariot, and Bitcoin is an army of slaves pulling a wheel-less load. And in fact, the "facts", prove this. Almost 400 KWh per transaction, and that at the feeble rate of 7 tx/sec. That is your "technological wonder". point 2: "Technological wonder[s]" of this time -- now -- are Machine Learning, CRISPR, etc. These are the "inventions" to pay attention to, not a thinly disguised play by private wealth to finally fully take out the national governments from the monetary system loop. That CJW -- Crypto Justice Warriors -- like you fail to see this is the actual "wonder".
    - fapjacks 9y ago
      I couldn't not read your post without hearing your every word dripping with seething anger and disappointment. While your post contains information that has lots of merit, I can't help but see the person that typed this reply as a Big Money VP or someone that's either lost a bunch of money "investing" in crypto, or really fucking pissed they didn't hold onto their Bitcoin. But just to preemptively defuse a reply, here's a funny story: I started mining Bitcoin really early, back when CPU mining was the only thing to do. I ended up selling them (a couple thousand) in January of 2012 to put the down payment on my car.

eternalban 9y ago

> Bitcoin is a technological wonder Oh, dear lord. > ultimately not as advanced as its younger brethren. These must then be simply out of this world. Superwonder technologies. Double digit transactions per second!! /$ The hype around this piece of software is getting out of hand.

hossbeast 9y ago
Perhaps you do not understand it's revolutionary aspects.
- pishpash 9y ago
  Nothing revolutionary about distributed consensus. It was the 2008 financial crisis that brought the anti-banking crowd into frenzy, seeing all sorts of claimed benefits in using this sort of thing for money. They would have been goldbugs or tulip collectors under other circumstances. Or do you mean the revolutionary scamming techniques never seen before? /s
  - tylersmith 9y ago
    Trustless Byzantine fault tolerant decentralized consensus as long as < 50% of participants are not acting in concert. That _is_ revolutionary.
    - amscanne 9y ago
      Not consensus, probabilistic consensus. And not 50% of participants, 50% of computing power. Those are critical distinctions.
      - darawk 9y ago
        But distinctions that make it no less revolutionary.
        pishpash 9y ago
        Probabilistic consensus was not known before bitcoin? Somehow I highly doubt it.
        kolinko 9y ago
        One that was resistant to sybil attacks? Bitcoin was the first system to do that as far as I know. Before bitcoin you would be unable to create a virtual currency without a central authority. Satoshi's algorithm was a new invention in 2009, although it's parts - like proof of Work - were invented in 1990s.
        darawk 9y ago
        Probabilistic, byzantine fault tolerant consensus was absolutely not known before Bitcoin.
      - eternalban 9y ago
        Exactly. Consensus by brute force. It is a curiously anti-democratic design.
- JohnStrange 9y ago
  Bitcoin and other crypto coins are a neat idea until their underlying cryptographic primitives are broken. Then they will immediately loose all of their value. Every cryptosystem of the past has been broken at some time.
  - loblollyboy 9y ago
    Bitcoin has problems but I really don’t think that is one of them https://www.quora.com/Has-the-Bitcoin-blockchain-itself-ever-been-hacked https://www.quora.com/Has-the-Bitcoin-blockchain-itself-ever...
  - oarsinsync 9y ago
    Indeed. The coin is only as strong as it's cryptography, and given enough time, all ciphers can and will be broken. Until that happens, there's still money to be made!
    - tatersolid 9y ago
      > and given enough time, all ciphers can and will be broken Not all ciphers... 3DES and GOST have no practical breaks after 40 years of cryptanalysis (all attacks have > 2^100 time or memory complexity) Any secure modern 256 bit symmetric primitive is likely safe from large quantum computers. What will continue to be be broken are encryption protocols and systems that misuse modern secure 256-bit primitives. So we will continue to see things like the BEAST attack because non-cryptographers continue to invent their own encryption protocols with alarming frequency.
sametmax 9y ago
I read that like: "a stone wheel ? man it's not revolutionary at all. It's heavy. And hard to make. It's not practical and currently unusable for real purposes." Said by a guy you just witness the historical invention of the wheel.
- eternalban 9y ago
  Just witnessed? I knew about bitcoin long before you did. I assure you of that. About the wheel. Rolling friction is less than sliding friction... Regrettably that point is probably over your head. +1 for your ad hom.
- eternalban 9y ago
  point 1: The wheel was, in fact, one of the first instances of a centralized structure replacing an inefficieint distributed structure. The central "hub" of a wheel bears the load and the "edge condition" is the substantially reduced "rolling friction". This is in contrast to ye old "distributed load" way of a zillion poor slaves pulling a load. So as far as the "wheel" goes, VISA is a chariot, and Bitcoin is an army of slaves pulling a wheel-less load. And in fact, the "facts", prove this. Almost 400 KWh per transaction, and that at the feeble rate of 7 tx/sec. That is your "technological wonder". point 2: "Technological wonder[s]" of this time -- now -- are Machine Learning, CRISPR, etc. These are the "inventions" to pay attention to, not a thinly disguised play by private wealth to finally fully take out the national governments from the monetary system loop. That CJW -- Crypto Justice Warriors -- like you fail to see this is the actual "wonder".
  - fapjacks 9y ago
    I couldn't not read your post without hearing your every word dripping with seething anger and disappointment. While your post contains information that has lots of merit, I can't help but see the person that typed this reply as a Big Money VP or someone that's either lost a bunch of money "investing" in crypto, or really fucking pissed they didn't hold onto their Bitcoin. But just to preemptively defuse a reply, here's a funny story: I started mining Bitcoin really early, back when CPU mining was the only thing to do. I ended up selling them (a couple thousand) in January of 2012 to put the down payment on my car.