3 ms·

Where is your second internet?

by Frogolocalypse 9y ago

ribosometronome 9y ago
Are you posting on the ARPANET?
- Frogolocalypse 9y ago
  I use email almost every day, yes. You realize the arpanet is the internet right? It wasn't replaced, it was expanded. Call it layers if that would make it easier to understand.
  - ribosometronome 9y ago
    ARPANET refers to a specific network that was decommissioned in 1990. And for 13 years of it's 21 years in existence, it was using NCP rather than TCP/IP.
    - Frogolocalypse 9y ago
      And the bitcoin node software i use today is version 0.15.1, not 0.8.0. The segwit block structure is different to the original implementation. One turned into the other. Nothing is stopping you running a 0.8.0 node of course. But the newer implementation has more functionality.
    - joeblau 9y ago
      I worked at BBN Technologies in the early 2000's. I was always amazed at how a company that essentially co-founded the internet and had the second domain name ever registered[1] could basically go out of business. You just made me think that Bitcoin could definitely be the ARPANET of blockchains and Core devs could be BBN. Don't get me wrong, I worked with some extremely smart people, but in the end, Raytheon bought the whole company. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_oldest_currently_registered_Internet_domain_names https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_oldest_currently_r...
      - Frogolocalypse 9y ago
        The difference of course, is that bitcoin isn't a company. And the arpanet turned into the internet. But companies come and go. By your analogy, raytheon owns the internet.
        joeblau 9y ago
        You're right, Bitcoin is not a company, it's a technology. This is the analogy I'd make. Then (Internet) / Now (Cryptocurrencies) NCP[1] == Blockchain based decentralized consensus ARPANET == Bitcoin BBN Technologies == Blockstream TCP/IP == We are figuring this out right now Internet == We are figuring this out right now The ARPANET turned into the Internet in the fact that parts of it were used to build TCP/IP and the modern Internet. Just like concepts from Bitcoin will eventually be used to build whatever decentralized byzantine fault tolerant mechanism we end up with in ten years. I don't think Bitcoin is the Internet, Bitcoin is the ARPANET. Also, I wouldn't say Raytheon owns the Internet. Today the Internet is owned and controlled by many different parties all built on the TCP/IP stack. Countries like China own their own internet. In my mind, all of this work to find different decentralized consensus algorithms is work to build transport layer (OSI Model[2]). Bitcoin is an early application, but thousands of applications are now popping up, competing, and building healthier communities. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Control_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Control_Program [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model
lawn 9y ago
There's always the chance that you can evolve and improve upon the technology instead of something else coming to replace it. For bitpay's usecase Bitcoin is being replaced by other coins because it fails to embrace on-chain scaling in favor of off-chain scaling which is far from ready. This is exactly as predicted.
- Frogolocalypse 9y ago
  Yep. If you want to get your transactions tracked by the chinese government, it is cheap. Like PayPal. If you want your transactions to be private, you use a decentralized blockchain like bitcoin.
  - lawn 9y ago
    I'm sorry but your continued comments in this thread are just play wrong. > If you want to get your transactions tracked by the chinese government That's such a stupid thing to say as with an open ledger everyone can track your transactions. > If you want your transactions to be private, you use a decentralized blockchain like bitcoin. You don't even know what a private transaction is. Bitcoin has an open ledger and all transactions are exactly as traceable.
    - Frogolocalypse 9y ago
      If you don't run your own node, which is the aim of bcash, your ip address is tied to your payment. You have the payment processor, and the node, and the miner, all sharing the same information. The chinese government appreciates your compliance with its crypto implementation.

Where is your second internet?

ribosometronome 9y ago

Are you posting on the ARPANET?

Frogolocalypse 9y ago
I use email almost every day, yes. You realize the arpanet is the internet right? It wasn't replaced, it was expanded. Call it layers if that would make it easier to understand.
- ribosometronome 9y ago
  ARPANET refers to a specific network that was decommissioned in 1990. And for 13 years of it's 21 years in existence, it was using NCP rather than TCP/IP.
  - Frogolocalypse 9y ago
    And the bitcoin node software i use today is version 0.15.1, not 0.8.0. The segwit block structure is different to the original implementation. One turned into the other. Nothing is stopping you running a 0.8.0 node of course. But the newer implementation has more functionality.
  - joeblau 9y ago
    I worked at BBN Technologies in the early 2000's. I was always amazed at how a company that essentially co-founded the internet and had the second domain name ever registered[1] could basically go out of business. You just made me think that Bitcoin could definitely be the ARPANET of blockchains and Core devs could be BBN. Don't get me wrong, I worked with some extremely smart people, but in the end, Raytheon bought the whole company. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_oldest_currently_registered_Internet_domain_names https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_oldest_currently_r...
    - Frogolocalypse 9y ago
      The difference of course, is that bitcoin isn't a company. And the arpanet turned into the internet. But companies come and go. By your analogy, raytheon owns the internet.
      - joeblau 9y ago
        You're right, Bitcoin is not a company, it's a technology. This is the analogy I'd make. Then (Internet) / Now (Cryptocurrencies) NCP[1] == Blockchain based decentralized consensus ARPANET == Bitcoin BBN Technologies == Blockstream TCP/IP == We are figuring this out right now Internet == We are figuring this out right now The ARPANET turned into the Internet in the fact that parts of it were used to build TCP/IP and the modern Internet. Just like concepts from Bitcoin will eventually be used to build whatever decentralized byzantine fault tolerant mechanism we end up with in ten years. I don't think Bitcoin is the Internet, Bitcoin is the ARPANET. Also, I wouldn't say Raytheon owns the Internet. Today the Internet is owned and controlled by many different parties all built on the TCP/IP stack. Countries like China own their own internet. In my mind, all of this work to find different decentralized consensus algorithms is work to build transport layer (OSI Model[2]). Bitcoin is an early application, but thousands of applications are now popping up, competing, and building healthier communities. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Control_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Control_Program [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model

lawn 9y ago

There's always the chance that you can evolve and improve upon the technology instead of something else coming to replace it. For bitpay's usecase Bitcoin is being replaced by other coins because it fails to embrace on-chain scaling in favor of off-chain scaling which is far from ready. This is exactly as predicted.

Frogolocalypse 9y ago
Yep. If you want to get your transactions tracked by the chinese government, it is cheap. Like PayPal. If you want your transactions to be private, you use a decentralized blockchain like bitcoin.
- lawn 9y ago
  I'm sorry but your continued comments in this thread are just play wrong. > If you want to get your transactions tracked by the chinese government That's such a stupid thing to say as with an open ledger everyone can track your transactions. > If you want your transactions to be private, you use a decentralized blockchain like bitcoin. You don't even know what a private transaction is. Bitcoin has an open ledger and all transactions are exactly as traceable.
  - Frogolocalypse 9y ago
    If you don't run your own node, which is the aim of bcash, your ip address is tied to your payment. You have the payment processor, and the node, and the miner, all sharing the same information. The chinese government appreciates your compliance with its crypto implementation.