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You should never 'apply for a job' in the traditional sense unless it is an hourly job at a mall or something like that. For professional jobs, the pattern is

You should never 'apply for a job' in the traditional sense unless it is an hourly job at a mall or something like that. For professional jobs, the pattern is as follows: 1. Locate professionals at the company you would like to work at. 2. Email them through a friend if that is possible, and if not, cold email them and say you are interested in learning more about XYZ company. Ask if they can grab a coffee or do a quick call. 3. During the coffee, ask them good questions to learn more and if you think you would still be interested, ask them if they have any advice on how to apply. 4. Do their advice, which typically means giving them just your resume and having them insert you in to the HR recruiting process. Any other strategy is a gigantic waste of time.

shusson 9y ago
> Any other strategy is a gigantic waste of time. Sounds like you value networking but I wouldn't call other strategies a waste of time. I got a lot of jobs in my career by simply writing a cover letter and directly applying.
mwfunk 9y ago
This is great advice in the right context, but it's not a universal context. If it's a big tech company in SV, for example, or really any company > 100 people in a crowded and desirable industry to be in, cold emailing people isn't going to make a good impression. Or if it does yield a positive response from someone, that's either not going to be a good company to work for, or not a good person to use as a contact at that company. Pushiness for the sake of pushiness isn't a foolproof solution, in both careers and dating. OTOH, in smaller and more close-knit communities of employers (for a completely random example, "architecture firms based in Des Moines", or "health-focused startups in SF"), where there's a relatively small group of smallish companies with a lot of cross-pollination between employees, this might be an effective strategy. It probably feels better than dropping a resume in some online drop box, because you are personally taking action rather than sitting around and waiting for callbacks that are probably not going to call back, but just because something feels better doesn't mean it's more effective. FWIW, I myself and plenty of other people I know have gotten really good jobs at big tech companies simply by making sure that any company of interest has a copy of one's resume in their vast database of resumes. It doesn't take any time at all to do that, so no time wasted, and it's one more way in which a potential employer can find it. Even it's just an additional 5% chance to get hired, that's a 5% chance that didn't exist before and doesn't cost time or money. Ultimately the only advice I can give anyone is to consider all avenues. Nothing's a gigantic waste of time if you're unemployed or unhappy at your current job. If you know people at the company, great. If there's someplace you can send in a resume or even apply for a specific position, great. If you have a non-stalkery means of making contact with people at the company (maybe going to meet ups or relevant conferences or whatever), also great. None of these approaches are mutually exclusive and most complement one another.
jasonlotito 9y ago
> Any other strategy is a gigantic waste of time. I got the job I'm out now (since 2011) and applied in a traditional sense. I was also in a foreign country at the time. It was painless and quick. Hardly a waste of time.
kyle-rb 9y ago
Maybe I'm just antisocial but I don't envy the person on either side of that situation. Also, if this is such an established pattern for professional jobs, why even bother having proper channels for applications? Are online applications just a honeypot to blacklist me from actually getting hired?
- chrisbennet 9y ago
  Here’s the thing, sometimes it seems like the HR department’s job is to weed out exceptional people. If you can avoid going through the front door (HR) it’s often to your advantage. As an aside, it may seem unfair to the less socially outgoing that others don’t use an existing process that might be in place. Take dating for instance - just because a girl is on a dating site doesn’t mean that the dating site is the only way to ask her out on a date. Finding a job is similar to dating in some ways.

shusson 9y ago

> Any other strategy is a gigantic waste of time. Sounds like you value networking but I wouldn't call other strategies a waste of time. I got a lot of jobs in my career by simply writing a cover letter and directly applying.

mwfunk 9y ago

This is great advice in the right context, but it's not a universal context. If it's a big tech company in SV, for example, or really any company > 100 people in a crowded and desirable industry to be in, cold emailing people isn't going to make a good impression. Or if it does yield a positive response from someone, that's either not going to be a good company to work for, or not a good person to use as a contact at that company. Pushiness for the sake of pushiness isn't a foolproof solution, in both careers and dating. OTOH, in smaller and more close-knit communities of employers (for a completely random example, "architecture firms based in Des Moines", or "health-focused startups in SF"), where there's a relatively small group of smallish companies with a lot of cross-pollination between employees, this might be an effective strategy. It probably feels better than dropping a resume in some online drop box, because you are personally taking action rather than sitting around and waiting for callbacks that are probably not going to call back, but just because something feels better doesn't mean it's more effective. FWIW, I myself and plenty of other people I know have gotten really good jobs at big tech companies simply by making sure that any company of interest has a copy of one's resume in their vast database of resumes. It doesn't take any time at all to do that, so no time wasted, and it's one more way in which a potential employer can find it. Even it's just an additional 5% chance to get hired, that's a 5% chance that didn't exist before and doesn't cost time or money. Ultimately the only advice I can give anyone is to consider all avenues. Nothing's a gigantic waste of time if you're unemployed or unhappy at your current job. If you know people at the company, great. If there's someplace you can send in a resume or even apply for a specific position, great. If you have a non-stalkery means of making contact with people at the company (maybe going to meet ups or relevant conferences or whatever), also great. None of these approaches are mutually exclusive and most complement one another.

jasonlotito 9y ago

> Any other strategy is a gigantic waste of time. I got the job I'm out now (since 2011) and applied in a traditional sense. I was also in a foreign country at the time. It was painless and quick. Hardly a waste of time.

kyle-rb 9y ago

Maybe I'm just antisocial but I don't envy the person on either side of that situation. Also, if this is such an established pattern for professional jobs, why even bother having proper channels for applications? Are online applications just a honeypot to blacklist me from actually getting hired?

chrisbennet 9y ago
Here’s the thing, sometimes it seems like the HR department’s job is to weed out exceptional people. If you can avoid going through the front door (HR) it’s often to your advantage. As an aside, it may seem unfair to the less socially outgoing that others don’t use an existing process that might be in place. Take dating for instance - just because a girl is on a dating site doesn’t mean that the dating site is the only way to ask her out on a date. Finding a job is similar to dating in some ways.