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Is organic farming all that much better? Are there any concrete numbers that indicate how that timeline of 60 years might be extended with different farming pra

Is organic farming all that much better? Are there any concrete numbers that indicate how that timeline of 60 years might be extended with different farming practices? It seems to me like we might have to make a big push towards solar-powered hydroponics or something of that nature. How depressing. Maybe soylent green is more of a realistic future than we thought...

bryanlarsen 9y ago
In my personal experience, organic farming causes much more soil loss than conventional farming. Organic dryland cereal farming depends on tillage for weed & pest control. Not only is the land plowed during planting and after harvest, every third year the land is left fallow. While left fallow it is plowed monthly. Conventional farmers have substantially reduced their usage of tillage increasing their chemical usage instead. Those chemicals may be not be good for the ecosystem, but they result in orders of magnitude less soil loss.
- nas 9y ago
  Speaking as someone who grew up on a grain farm and has owned a farm, this is correct. Obviously it is hard to generalize but low or no tillage farming has vastly lower soil erosion compared to conventional or organic tillage practices. For some reason, people have the set idea that organic practice must be good because its what our forefathers did. In reality, little we do regarding farming is actually sustainable. You are hauling tonnes of material away from the field every year. Those things are not going back, whether you are organic or conventional. Also, it is a matter of relative severity of problems. Soil loss is much worse than depletion of soil nutrients. As said, organic is potentially much worse for soil loss (although different practices like intensive use of cover crops can help).
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  no-till is incompatible with organic farming? Hadn't heard about that, a shame if true. I'm not a farmer, but I had heard there were a variety of strategies that would qualify as organic, e.g. cover crops that choke out the weeds, or plastic sheeting over the ground to bake the weeds & pests.
tomtheelder 9y ago
> Is organic farming all that much better I couldn't get through any of the paywalls, but there are articles out there that suggest that it is. A lot of other factors are important too. Good rotation, being careful about what strains are used (many crops have been bred/modified for high yields, but that yield often comes at the expense of the soil). This is very much a solvable problem. The 1000 year number in the article is how long it can take under just normal circumstances, but that can be sped up a LOT using various techniques including proper tillage, animal grazing, etc. The big "problem" is that all of these things will make crops more expensive, but any other solution is going to quickly become even pricier than that so it should still be done. > It seems to me like we might have to make a big push towards solar-powered hydroponics or something of that nature. Right now the costs (particularly start-up costs) are too high for this to be totally viable, but I think it will become a much more significant method of growing food down the line.
polkovnikov-ph 9y ago
Nah, that's just employee of Organic™ industry hopped on a train and added some lame ads to the topic. But in reality the faster people realize that genetically modified products are more nutritious and less harming to nature, the better are our chances of survival.

bryanlarsen 9y ago

In my personal experience, organic farming causes much more soil loss than conventional farming. Organic dryland cereal farming depends on tillage for weed & pest control. Not only is the land plowed during planting and after harvest, every third year the land is left fallow. While left fallow it is plowed monthly. Conventional farmers have substantially reduced their usage of tillage increasing their chemical usage instead. Those chemicals may be not be good for the ecosystem, but they result in orders of magnitude less soil loss.

nas 9y ago
Speaking as someone who grew up on a grain farm and has owned a farm, this is correct. Obviously it is hard to generalize but low or no tillage farming has vastly lower soil erosion compared to conventional or organic tillage practices. For some reason, people have the set idea that organic practice must be good because its what our forefathers did. In reality, little we do regarding farming is actually sustainable. You are hauling tonnes of material away from the field every year. Those things are not going back, whether you are organic or conventional. Also, it is a matter of relative severity of problems. Soil loss is much worse than depletion of soil nutrients. As said, organic is potentially much worse for soil loss (although different practices like intensive use of cover crops can help).
sliverstorm 9y ago
no-till is incompatible with organic farming? Hadn't heard about that, a shame if true. I'm not a farmer, but I had heard there were a variety of strategies that would qualify as organic, e.g. cover crops that choke out the weeds, or plastic sheeting over the ground to bake the weeds & pests.

tomtheelder 9y ago

> Is organic farming all that much better I couldn't get through any of the paywalls, but there are articles out there that suggest that it is. A lot of other factors are important too. Good rotation, being careful about what strains are used (many crops have been bred/modified for high yields, but that yield often comes at the expense of the soil). This is very much a solvable problem. The 1000 year number in the article is how long it can take under just normal circumstances, but that can be sped up a LOT using various techniques including proper tillage, animal grazing, etc. The big "problem" is that all of these things will make crops more expensive, but any other solution is going to quickly become even pricier than that so it should still be done. > It seems to me like we might have to make a big push towards solar-powered hydroponics or something of that nature. Right now the costs (particularly start-up costs) are too high for this to be totally viable, but I think it will become a much more significant method of growing food down the line.

polkovnikov-ph 9y ago

Nah, that's just employee of Organic™ industry hopped on a train and added some lame ads to the topic. But in reality the faster people realize that genetically modified products are more nutritious and less harming to nature, the better are our chances of survival.