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> Ms Shahnaz was born in Pakistan and worked as a lab technician in the US. I'm not american, though I spend some time in US, mostly in Maine. Every-time I hea

> Ms Shahnaz was born in Pakistan and worked as a lab technician in the US. I'm not american, though I spend some time in US, mostly in Maine. Every-time I hear this kind of stories, I can't help but thinking: you go through all that trouble to immigrate to US to build yourself a lot of opportunities for your life and all you end up doing is shit like these? while millions of people are waiting in line wishing for a better life? Same for anybody living an Europe who rushed to go live in the Caliphate... while people are fleeing these very places because of the insane violence... I can't understand this.

pcunite 9y ago
I feel the same way, in fact, I think the truth of what is really happening with stories like this is probably stranger.
VeronicaJJ123 9y ago
At the core of this confusion is Islam. Islam is not just a religion it is a code for entire life. I have met many Pakistani people who frown on the fact that USA allows women to walk around without Hijab. They would prefer Sharia over US constitution any day. They would love to see Pork banned. These are educated people and not some radical morons. Sadly for American approach towards Islam has been that "Religion is good, some people are bad" in reality that should be "People are more or less same, religious ideology is bad". Unless the American society confronts Islam it is going to be hard for a young Muslim person to appreciate and support the freedoms.
throw901232 9y ago
I was in the US an H1B worker highly skilled in a top company. I wanted to be a US citizen. US is a great country. But I have to wait 10 years minimum (India queue) to get a greencard and my wife cannot work because is an H4 visa holder. So I left US and immigrated to Canada and is a citizen now. US should stop taking in people thru diversity visas and family categories, but skilled people like me who wants to contribute and make it big in life are made to wait forever. Your loss US, your loss. US' immigration system is broken. Diversity visa system & the entire family tree of that person moving to the US in the course of time. What a burden to the US taxpayers !. While skilled workers like me bringing high value to the US economy are being pushed away. US immigration system is a joke. Take a cue from Canada's express entry system and learn.
- ajross 9y ago
  The article obviously doesn't talk about her visa status, but it certainly sounds like she holds a work visa just like you did. It doesn't sound like she is a naturalized citizen. I agree the immigration quotas should be higher, though.
  - someguydave 9y ago
    No, that's the wrong takeaway. The immigration queues should be full of high quality people who are also likely to make loyal US citizens.
    - matt_wulfeck 9y ago
      The precisely not how it works now. It’s full of people who will make good employees. Selecting for good citizens is very different, but in the case of bitter-toned OP perhaps it worked in this regard.
      - someguydave 9y ago
        >It’s full of people who will make good employees. Yeah I would agree with that. You can see the conflict of interest here though - with the existing system US Federal Government employees are making decisions about who might become a citizen one day. Presumably, those citizens will then hold the government employees accountable for their actions. This biases US Government decision-making towards populations that tend to be pliable and dependent on the state, rather than populations who have the capability of building alternative bases of power. Honestly what this means is that decisions about who to let in the country are too important for the US Government to be making - exactly because citizens should hold it accountable for its behavior.
- cat199 9y ago
  And since you is a citizen of canada now, do you also take the popcorn for stories like this? "Suspect in Canada Terror Attack Had Been Ordered to Leave U.S." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/world/canada/canada-terror-attack.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/world/canada/canada-terro... Glad that someone funneling money to terrorists is a cause for your celebration though. At least it makes someone besides the terrorists happy. Clearly we lost a charmer. I'll be sure to write my congressperson.
bufferoverflow 9y ago
Religion. It's extremely powerful, especially if indoctrinated from young age. And it gets compartmentalized, when faced with opposing facts. That's why we have PhDs who believe the Earth is 6000 years old.
- Quarrelsome 9y ago
  Its not just that. Its also family ties, sense of belonging and identity. Specifically in regards to ISIS its also about "changing the world" and being a force for "good" in the world. This sort of idea is appealing to those that are young as well as those who feel the need to be "redeemed" or are stuck in some sort of rut. To just attribute it to religion is missing a lot of the background detail of why people do these things.
- baldfat 9y ago
  > Religion There is differences between some follows of religion and others. As a Theology Student who has read the Koran several times, I can tell you it is not based on the Koran, but more about ideology and worldview and not what their religion teaches them. This is why when most Muslims confront terrorist they tell them they aren't Muslims. For example Westboro Church's stances and action are not built off of what Christianity traditions, scriptures or historical figures taught them but it based on their own twisted worldview and ideology that causes them to protest veteran's funeral and attempted to protest Sandyhook victim's funerals (Happy to say that my home state wouldn't let them get there) So slamming all of "Religion" is being disagreeable. I think the biggest thing all of us, especially in US right now, needs to judge ourselves on how we treat people we disagree with.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - mankash666 9y ago
    Nobody cares about the true word of the Koran. Nobody wants a thesis on accuracy of interpretation. What matters is the most accessible, loudest voice in the space. Just like fake news, accessibility and network effects are the only things that matter. The demand is for one particular religion to acknowledge and tame the spread of this loud, violent "fake" religion/interpretation, if you will
VeejayRampay 9y ago
Maybe your perception is that you're ultimately helping your fellow muslim brothers and sisters and sacrificing yourself for the greater good. Of course it doesn't make any sense to me but given enough propaganda and indoctrination, anything can happen.
shoover 9y ago
mostly in Maine Side point: excellent choice, if I may say.
Parcissons 9y ago
Its actually to get caught and built up prejudices against other immigrants. These guys want the borders closed, the US in Opposition and immigrants forced to return to the warzone. Remember, every "return" operation usually goes along with massive bribes to the "government" of the area, so it is ultimatly most of the time a attempt of small governments to get kickbacks from the kicker of the back kicked.
sillysaurus3 9y ago
It's important to read indictments skeptically. The point of an indictment is to indict. In this case, her actions look pretty bad. And if she was funding terrorist organizations, then yes, agreed. But consider that she may have actually been trying to help people. The central issue here seems to be that she was taking out loans to buy BTC. That's not ok under any circumstance, unless of course someone is loaning you the money because you told them of your plans.
thescriptkiddie 9y ago
Is it possible that she was framed? Or pressured into it?
- Kalium 9y ago
  You're absolutely right! Both are very, very possible. Fortunately for her, she and her legal defense team will have ample opportunity to present facts on such precisely this subject! Specifically, during trial.
ciupicri 9y ago
Related: "After fleeing North Korea, some defectors want to go back to life under Kim Jong-un" http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-15/north-korean-defectors-returning-to-the-hermit-kingdom/9254654?pfmredir=sm http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-15/north-korean-defect...
juicyfroot 9y ago
As far as I can tell... her crime was taking out a loan and carrying cash. Not really sure where Bitcoins fall into it... I mean anyone can repeat the private key over phone or paper.

pcunite 9y ago

I feel the same way, in fact, I think the truth of what is really happening with stories like this is probably stranger.

VeronicaJJ123 9y ago

At the core of this confusion is Islam. Islam is not just a religion it is a code for entire life. I have met many Pakistani people who frown on the fact that USA allows women to walk around without Hijab. They would prefer Sharia over US constitution any day. They would love to see Pork banned. These are educated people and not some radical morons. Sadly for American approach towards Islam has been that "Religion is good, some people are bad" in reality that should be "People are more or less same, religious ideology is bad". Unless the American society confronts Islam it is going to be hard for a young Muslim person to appreciate and support the freedoms.

throw901232 9y ago

I was in the US an H1B worker highly skilled in a top company. I wanted to be a US citizen. US is a great country. But I have to wait 10 years minimum (India queue) to get a greencard and my wife cannot work because is an H4 visa holder. So I left US and immigrated to Canada and is a citizen now. US should stop taking in people thru diversity visas and family categories, but skilled people like me who wants to contribute and make it big in life are made to wait forever. Your loss US, your loss. US' immigration system is broken. Diversity visa system & the entire family tree of that person moving to the US in the course of time. What a burden to the US taxpayers !. While skilled workers like me bringing high value to the US economy are being pushed away. US immigration system is a joke. Take a cue from Canada's express entry system and learn.

ajross 9y ago
The article obviously doesn't talk about her visa status, but it certainly sounds like she holds a work visa just like you did. It doesn't sound like she is a naturalized citizen. I agree the immigration quotas should be higher, though.
- someguydave 9y ago
  No, that's the wrong takeaway. The immigration queues should be full of high quality people who are also likely to make loyal US citizens.
  - matt_wulfeck 9y ago
    The precisely not how it works now. It’s full of people who will make good employees. Selecting for good citizens is very different, but in the case of bitter-toned OP perhaps it worked in this regard.
    - someguydave 9y ago
      >It’s full of people who will make good employees. Yeah I would agree with that. You can see the conflict of interest here though - with the existing system US Federal Government employees are making decisions about who might become a citizen one day. Presumably, those citizens will then hold the government employees accountable for their actions. This biases US Government decision-making towards populations that tend to be pliable and dependent on the state, rather than populations who have the capability of building alternative bases of power. Honestly what this means is that decisions about who to let in the country are too important for the US Government to be making - exactly because citizens should hold it accountable for its behavior.
cat199 9y ago
And since you is a citizen of canada now, do you also take the popcorn for stories like this? "Suspect in Canada Terror Attack Had Been Ordered to Leave U.S." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/world/canada/canada-terror-attack.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/world/canada/canada-terro... Glad that someone funneling money to terrorists is a cause for your celebration though. At least it makes someone besides the terrorists happy. Clearly we lost a charmer. I'll be sure to write my congressperson.

bufferoverflow 9y ago

Religion. It's extremely powerful, especially if indoctrinated from young age. And it gets compartmentalized, when faced with opposing facts. That's why we have PhDs who believe the Earth is 6000 years old.

Quarrelsome 9y ago
Its not just that. Its also family ties, sense of belonging and identity. Specifically in regards to ISIS its also about "changing the world" and being a force for "good" in the world. This sort of idea is appealing to those that are young as well as those who feel the need to be "redeemed" or are stuck in some sort of rut. To just attribute it to religion is missing a lot of the background detail of why people do these things.
baldfat 9y ago
> Religion There is differences between some follows of religion and others. As a Theology Student who has read the Koran several times, I can tell you it is not based on the Koran, but more about ideology and worldview and not what their religion teaches them. This is why when most Muslims confront terrorist they tell them they aren't Muslims. For example Westboro Church's stances and action are not built off of what Christianity traditions, scriptures or historical figures taught them but it based on their own twisted worldview and ideology that causes them to protest veteran's funeral and attempted to protest Sandyhook victim's funerals (Happy to say that my home state wouldn't let them get there) So slamming all of "Religion" is being disagreeable. I think the biggest thing all of us, especially in US right now, needs to judge ourselves on how we treat people we disagree with.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mankash666 9y ago
  Nobody cares about the true word of the Koran. Nobody wants a thesis on accuracy of interpretation. What matters is the most accessible, loudest voice in the space. Just like fake news, accessibility and network effects are the only things that matter. The demand is for one particular religion to acknowledge and tame the spread of this loud, violent "fake" religion/interpretation, if you will

VeejayRampay 9y ago

Maybe your perception is that you're ultimately helping your fellow muslim brothers and sisters and sacrificing yourself for the greater good. Of course it doesn't make any sense to me but given enough propaganda and indoctrination, anything can happen.

shoover 9y ago

mostly in Maine Side point: excellent choice, if I may say.

Parcissons 9y ago

Its actually to get caught and built up prejudices against other immigrants. These guys want the borders closed, the US in Opposition and immigrants forced to return to the warzone. Remember, every "return" operation usually goes along with massive bribes to the "government" of the area, so it is ultimatly most of the time a attempt of small governments to get kickbacks from the kicker of the back kicked.

sillysaurus3 9y ago

It's important to read indictments skeptically. The point of an indictment is to indict. In this case, her actions look pretty bad. And if she was funding terrorist organizations, then yes, agreed. But consider that she may have actually been trying to help people. The central issue here seems to be that she was taking out loans to buy BTC. That's not ok under any circumstance, unless of course someone is loaning you the money because you told them of your plans.

thescriptkiddie 9y ago

Is it possible that she was framed? Or pressured into it?

Kalium 9y ago
You're absolutely right! Both are very, very possible. Fortunately for her, she and her legal defense team will have ample opportunity to present facts on such precisely this subject! Specifically, during trial.

ciupicri 9y ago

Related: "After fleeing North Korea, some defectors want to go back to life under Kim Jong-un" http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-15/north-korean-defectors-returning-to-the-hermit-kingdom/9254654?pfmredir=sm http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-15/north-korean-defect...

juicyfroot 9y ago

As far as I can tell... her crime was taking out a loan and carrying cash. Not really sure where Bitcoins fall into it... I mean anyone can repeat the private key over phone or paper.