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Are you serious? With all the allegations of election fraud you seriously think it's okay to go to the voting station without identifying yourself? Do you have

by rijoja 9y ago

Are you serious? With all the allegations of election fraud you seriously think it's okay to go to the voting station without identifying yourself? Do you have any idea how crazy this sounds to the rest of the developed world?

Jonnax 9y ago
In the UK you just: Go to a polling station. State your name and address. They cross your name off and you get a card Make your choices and put it in a box. There is negligible voter fraud.
- fastball 9y ago
  Sure, but you need to register in advance for the electoral roll, and that registration is linked to an actual known identity (usually via your National Insurance number). And if you arrive at the polling station and someone has already "stolen" your vote, I'm sure you can contest that, no? That is why your UK credit score has "being on the electoral roll" as a major component - private companies trust the registration process required to vote.
  - PhineasRex 9y ago
    In the USA you have to register in advance for the electoral roll (which is tied to your SSN or DMV number) and show up with photo ID in these states. If voter fraud were occuring people would, as you say, notice that their vote had been stolen. This is why the photo ID requirement seems superfluous.
    - fastball 9y ago
      Yes, you need to register in advance in both places. However, SSNs are known to be fairly easy to use fradulently. Much more so than the UK's NI number, which is far better managed, tracked, and linked more closely to employment and social services. In the US, there have been many instances where the SSNs of dead people have been abused for a variety of reasons [1]. As to photo ID - there is no federal mandate to have photo ID for voting, and only 15 states require voters to show up to polls with a photo ID [2]. And those states that do are routinely accused by democrats of voter suppression for this requirement. That's kinda the point. One side argues that SSN verification is ripe for abuse, the other side argues that requiring ID is voter suppression. In order to claim that the system is not ripe for abuse, I think you'd need to prove that SSNs are secure, which is gonna be a major problem because they are definitely not. 1: https://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/11/dead-peoples-social-security-numbers-still-in-use.html https://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/11/dead-peoples-social-security... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_St...
- gadders 9y ago
  There is a postal vote fraud. I wouldn't say it was common, but it's definitely not negligible.
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2016/12/how-big-a-problem-is-voting-fraud-in-uk-elections.html/ https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2016/12/how-big-a-problem-is-votin... > According to the data provided in the report, there were 51.4 million votes cast across the UK in 2015, with 26 allegations of voting fraud relation to in person voting and 11 relating to proxy voting, a total of 37. It seems negligible.
    - gadders 9y ago
      That's just the number of occurrences, not the number of votes. One postal voting instance could be hundreds of votes. EG: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1487144/Judge-lambasts-postal-ballot-rules-as-Labour-6-convicted-of-poll-fraud.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1487144/Judge-lambast...
- arien 9y ago
  This is one of the ways "dead" people can keep voting over and over long after they've passed away.
- rijoja 9y ago
  This sounds barbarian to me!
krackersk 9y ago
I doesn't sound crazy at all. In Australia no one shows ID, we have a voter roll. You walk up and say your name, which is found on the voter roll and you then go an vote. The name is checked off, as it is compulsory to vote in Australia, so you get rid of all the shannigans about turnout, and actually find out what all the people want rather than a subset.
- sheepmullet 9y ago
  And to make it clear the reason Australians don't need ID is because voting is compulsory so turnout is >90% each election.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  Australian here. If often wondered if anyone checks those rolls. What's to stop a motivated person from going to several polling booths and casting multiple votes? I suspect this doesn't happen much.
Latty 9y ago
Except the allegations all have no proof, despite being investigated, and meanwhile voter suppression has happened, repeatedly. Courts have forced states with voter ID laws to reopen DMVs, for example, where they were closed in predominantly black areas. You are also completely ignoring the core part of my post, where I say there is literally no issue with requiring ID, provided you ensure that everyone has easy access to it at minimal cost. If you want to require one, require the other - it's hardly a big ask.

by rijoja 9y ago

Jonnax 9y ago

In the UK you just: Go to a polling station. State your name and address. They cross your name off and you get a card Make your choices and put it in a box. There is negligible voter fraud.

fastball 9y ago
Sure, but you need to register in advance for the electoral roll, and that registration is linked to an actual known identity (usually via your National Insurance number). And if you arrive at the polling station and someone has already "stolen" your vote, I'm sure you can contest that, no? That is why your UK credit score has "being on the electoral roll" as a major component - private companies trust the registration process required to vote.
- PhineasRex 9y ago
  In the USA you have to register in advance for the electoral roll (which is tied to your SSN or DMV number) and show up with photo ID in these states. If voter fraud were occuring people would, as you say, notice that their vote had been stolen. This is why the photo ID requirement seems superfluous.
  - fastball 9y ago
    Yes, you need to register in advance in both places. However, SSNs are known to be fairly easy to use fradulently. Much more so than the UK's NI number, which is far better managed, tracked, and linked more closely to employment and social services. In the US, there have been many instances where the SSNs of dead people have been abused for a variety of reasons [1]. As to photo ID - there is no federal mandate to have photo ID for voting, and only 15 states require voters to show up to polls with a photo ID [2]. And those states that do are routinely accused by democrats of voter suppression for this requirement. That's kinda the point. One side argues that SSN verification is ripe for abuse, the other side argues that requiring ID is voter suppression. In order to claim that the system is not ripe for abuse, I think you'd need to prove that SSNs are secure, which is gonna be a major problem because they are definitely not. 1: https://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/11/dead-peoples-social-security-numbers-still-in-use.html https://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/11/dead-peoples-social-security... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_St...
gadders 9y ago
There is a postal vote fraud. I wouldn't say it was common, but it's definitely not negligible.
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2016/12/how-big-a-problem-is-voting-fraud-in-uk-elections.html/ https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2016/12/how-big-a-problem-is-votin... > According to the data provided in the report, there were 51.4 million votes cast across the UK in 2015, with 26 allegations of voting fraud relation to in person voting and 11 relating to proxy voting, a total of 37. It seems negligible.
  - gadders 9y ago
    That's just the number of occurrences, not the number of votes. One postal voting instance could be hundreds of votes. EG: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1487144/Judge-lambasts-postal-ballot-rules-as-Labour-6-convicted-of-poll-fraud.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1487144/Judge-lambast...
arien 9y ago
This is one of the ways "dead" people can keep voting over and over long after they've passed away.
rijoja 9y ago
This sounds barbarian to me!

krackersk 9y ago

I doesn't sound crazy at all. In Australia no one shows ID, we have a voter roll. You walk up and say your name, which is found on the voter roll and you then go an vote. The name is checked off, as it is compulsory to vote in Australia, so you get rid of all the shannigans about turnout, and actually find out what all the people want rather than a subset.

sheepmullet 9y ago
And to make it clear the reason Australians don't need ID is because voting is compulsory so turnout is >90% each election.
TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
Australian here. If often wondered if anyone checks those rolls. What's to stop a motivated person from going to several polling booths and casting multiple votes? I suspect this doesn't happen much.

Latty 9y ago

Except the allegations all have no proof, despite being investigated, and meanwhile voter suppression has happened, repeatedly. Courts have forced states with voter ID laws to reopen DMVs, for example, where they were closed in predominantly black areas. You are also completely ignoring the core part of my post, where I say there is literally no issue with requiring ID, provided you ensure that everyone has easy access to it at minimal cost. If you want to require one, require the other - it's hardly a big ask.