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>* the public transport is probably one of the best all over the world (even though the locals keep complaining), with completely driverless trains and accuracy

>* the public transport is probably one of the best all over the world (even though the locals keep complaining), with completely driverless trains and accuracy that would make the Germans and the Swiss cry in envy.< Train service is one of the top electoral campaign issues for the past 3 cycles (about 12 years). I don't know the metrics for European countries but my anecdotal experience in Japan is that the Singapore system is not even worthy of discussion. Don't even get me started on the quality of Japanese roads. Since you're a relatively newcomer, you would not have believed what Singapore was like in the 80s when LKY was in power. I never saw a pothole in my life until I went abroad. Completely serious. >* because the cars are so expensive, driving skills are not at all universal.< It's definitely tougher than in the US. Haven't sat for a license exam in Europe so unable to form a frame of reference.

vadimberman 9y ago
> I don't know the metrics for European countries but my anecdotal experience in Japan is that the Singapore system is not even worthy of discussion. That's strange, while I liked the Tokyo JR system, I think Singapore's overcrowding is better managed. No people pushing passengers into trains. I know it was considered an issue and every single Singaporean complains about it. Which is really, really puzzling. You guys should be sent to New York or Boston for a tour.
- hboon 9y ago
  If you compare Singapore's MRT system to similar systems in every city in the world, it will rank among the top. But it's a matter of expectation. But if you include the massive hype and expectations set over the years — and the performance of the MRT system for the first 10 years — the current breakdowns, delays and obvious negligence in maintenance and how they are currently handled is what makes people here complain about it all the time.
  - vadimberman 9y ago
    That makes perfect sense.
  - sho 9y ago
    > if you include the massive hype and expectations I think you've hit the nail on the head here. One thing that no-one has mentioned is the implicit social contract in place in Singapore - give the PAP basically total power, and everything will run perfectly. This rightfully sets an extremely high expectation, moreso than in other countries where a little government incompetence is tolerated, even expected. I think this explains Singaporean's higher expectations/complaining vs other countries (in my experience).
  - brisance 9y ago
    I'm not sure the MRT would be rated at the top. HK's MTR and Japan's rail operators handle higher volumes so if we take that into account it's more likely they'll come out ahead. But I agree that there is anger because lowering our standards is not in our national consciousness since everyone has been brainwashed to expect only the best from Singaporean Exceptionalism™.
- kccqzy 9y ago
  Singaporeans aren’t complaining because their trains are worse compared to the ones in New York. They are complaining because the trains are worse compared with fifteen years ago. Fifteen years ago it was unthinkable that two of the busiest lines would simultaneously go down for hours during rush hour, but that happened in July 2015. The NS/EW line trains were so incompetently maintained that reliability has been going down for several years now, to the point that outages are now common. This is after years of reliable service such that most Singaporeans do not have cars and depend on trains for almost all travel needs. This is valid cause for complaint.
  - vadimberman 9y ago
    Thanks for the explanation. So on one day, 2 years ago, after 15 years of perfect order, two lines went down. I understand what you're saying about the standards going down and it's good that the Singaporeans are so demanding toward the authorities. Still, it is not regarded an extinction-level event in most places. In Melbourne (Australia), for instance, only 87% of the trains are required to arrive within 5 minutes of the schedule. That is, over every 10th train can be late and it's OK with everybody. See here: https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/about-ptv/victorias-public-transport-network/performance-monitoring/ https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/about-ptv/victorias-public-transp... The average time between trains is 10-15 minutes, up to 20 in off-peak hours. (For trams and buses, the standards are more lax, obviously.) This is normal; Melbourne transportation is regarded as generally of decent quality worldwide and yes, CBD-bound Melbourne commuters generally use public transport, too.
    - ValentineC 9y ago
      > So on one day, 2 years ago, after 15 years of perfect order, two lines went down. The Singapore train system has been around for 30 years, but that's not the point. It hasn't been 15 years of perfect order — my experience for the past year has been that I cannot rely on the train system to reach a destination on time, nor can I rely on announcements, since the government mandates that only delays above 10 minutes need to be announced. [1] On the ground, I have rolled my eyes at the many delays that go by unannounced, presumably because they're only "9:59 minutes" long. > Still, it is not regarded an extinction-level event in most places. It's really bad in Singapore because the train system is the only thing that can cope with the population. This is the sight at bus stops when a small section of _one_ line was disrupted for just _two_ hours: http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/commuters-hit-with-2-hour-mrt-disruption http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/commuters-hit-with-2-h... Just three days ago, our newest line (which is between 1 to 4 years old) was hit by delays [2]. For a lot of Singaporeans, the problem isn't with not being able to use the trains — it's with: 1) the companies not being transparent and forging maintenance records [3]; 2) being unable to plan alternative routes because of the lack of announcements; and 3) a Minister of Transport who shifts blame to everything and everyone but himself [4]. -- [1] http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/rail-operators-required-to-inform-commuters-of-delays-exceeding-10-minutes http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/rail-operato... [2] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/delays-hit-downtown-line-during-evening-rush-hour-due-to-9492618 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/delays-hit-do... [3] http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/how-systemic-are-smrts-cultural-issues http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/how-systemic... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaw_Boon_Wan#Minister_for_Transport_(2015_-_present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaw_Boon_Wan#Minister_for_Tra...

vadimberman 9y ago

> I don't know the metrics for European countries but my anecdotal experience in Japan is that the Singapore system is not even worthy of discussion. That's strange, while I liked the Tokyo JR system, I think Singapore's overcrowding is better managed. No people pushing passengers into trains. I know it was considered an issue and every single Singaporean complains about it. Which is really, really puzzling. You guys should be sent to New York or Boston for a tour.

hboon 9y ago
If you compare Singapore's MRT system to similar systems in every city in the world, it will rank among the top. But it's a matter of expectation. But if you include the massive hype and expectations set over the years — and the performance of the MRT system for the first 10 years — the current breakdowns, delays and obvious negligence in maintenance and how they are currently handled is what makes people here complain about it all the time.
- vadimberman 9y ago
  That makes perfect sense.
- sho 9y ago
  > if you include the massive hype and expectations I think you've hit the nail on the head here. One thing that no-one has mentioned is the implicit social contract in place in Singapore - give the PAP basically total power, and everything will run perfectly. This rightfully sets an extremely high expectation, moreso than in other countries where a little government incompetence is tolerated, even expected. I think this explains Singaporean's higher expectations/complaining vs other countries (in my experience).
- brisance 9y ago
  I'm not sure the MRT would be rated at the top. HK's MTR and Japan's rail operators handle higher volumes so if we take that into account it's more likely they'll come out ahead. But I agree that there is anger because lowering our standards is not in our national consciousness since everyone has been brainwashed to expect only the best from Singaporean Exceptionalism™.
kccqzy 9y ago
Singaporeans aren’t complaining because their trains are worse compared to the ones in New York. They are complaining because the trains are worse compared with fifteen years ago. Fifteen years ago it was unthinkable that two of the busiest lines would simultaneously go down for hours during rush hour, but that happened in July 2015. The NS/EW line trains were so incompetently maintained that reliability has been going down for several years now, to the point that outages are now common. This is after years of reliable service such that most Singaporeans do not have cars and depend on trains for almost all travel needs. This is valid cause for complaint.
- vadimberman 9y ago
  Thanks for the explanation. So on one day, 2 years ago, after 15 years of perfect order, two lines went down. I understand what you're saying about the standards going down and it's good that the Singaporeans are so demanding toward the authorities. Still, it is not regarded an extinction-level event in most places. In Melbourne (Australia), for instance, only 87% of the trains are required to arrive within 5 minutes of the schedule. That is, over every 10th train can be late and it's OK with everybody. See here: https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/about-ptv/victorias-public-transport-network/performance-monitoring/ https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/about-ptv/victorias-public-transp... The average time between trains is 10-15 minutes, up to 20 in off-peak hours. (For trams and buses, the standards are more lax, obviously.) This is normal; Melbourne transportation is regarded as generally of decent quality worldwide and yes, CBD-bound Melbourne commuters generally use public transport, too.
  - ValentineC 9y ago
    > So on one day, 2 years ago, after 15 years of perfect order, two lines went down. The Singapore train system has been around for 30 years, but that's not the point. It hasn't been 15 years of perfect order — my experience for the past year has been that I cannot rely on the train system to reach a destination on time, nor can I rely on announcements, since the government mandates that only delays above 10 minutes need to be announced. [1] On the ground, I have rolled my eyes at the many delays that go by unannounced, presumably because they're only "9:59 minutes" long. > Still, it is not regarded an extinction-level event in most places. It's really bad in Singapore because the train system is the only thing that can cope with the population. This is the sight at bus stops when a small section of _one_ line was disrupted for just _two_ hours: http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/commuters-hit-with-2-hour-mrt-disruption http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/commuters-hit-with-2-h... Just three days ago, our newest line (which is between 1 to 4 years old) was hit by delays [2]. For a lot of Singaporeans, the problem isn't with not being able to use the trains — it's with: 1) the companies not being transparent and forging maintenance records [3]; 2) being unable to plan alternative routes because of the lack of announcements; and 3) a Minister of Transport who shifts blame to everything and everyone but himself [4]. -- [1] http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/rail-operators-required-to-inform-commuters-of-delays-exceeding-10-minutes http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/rail-operato... [2] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/delays-hit-downtown-line-during-evening-rush-hour-due-to-9492618 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/delays-hit-do... [3] http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/how-systemic-are-smrts-cultural-issues http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/how-systemic... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaw_Boon_Wan#Minister_for_Transport_(2015_-_present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaw_Boon_Wan#Minister_for_Tra...