8 ms·

I have no idea what this article was about. As someone who grew up in India, lived extensively in Europe and Arizona before settling down in the Bay Area, and t

• MrJagil 9y ago
  Can you expand on your experience as a brown man in Denmark? Where did you live? I would like your take on it.
  • dmode 9y ago
    I used to live in Frederiksberg, which is practically Copenhagen. I loved Denmark, but as with most European countries, there is a specific definition of what "Dane" means. Foreigners will always be an outsider(vastly different than living in the Bay Area). I also sensed some discomfort with "white collar" brown folks. As most of Danish interactions with brown people is limited to Doner Kebab restaurants and Afghani run grocery stores. There were very few non-white white collar workers. I also faced outright racial hostility, but thankfully those instances were very few. If you are considering a move to Denmark, think about this is an European moving to India and China. It is like expat living as chances of integrating to a Danish society will be minimal.
    • mbroncano 9y ago
      To be completely fair, and by my own experience, it doesn't get any better for a caucasian foreigner.
    • xmonkee 9y ago
      I'm with you on this. I've been living in the US for three years and literally never faced any racism of any sort. I went to vacation in Amsterdam and some shit faced kid decided to harass me cause I'm Indian within two days of being there. Anecdotal, but yeah.
• nine_k 9y ago
  While in SF / SV, can you feel the general air of the ideas acceptable here? A small experiment: take an idea which obviously contradicts that air, and imagine rationally discussing it with people who you typically meet in SF. Will it be more than slightly uncomfortable? Scott Alexander wrote this great piece, I leave a link to it here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything... For instant enlightenment, search for the word "Bodhidharma" and read the short parable.
  • letsbehonest 9y ago
    While on HN, you can feel the general air of acceptable ideas. Sam Altman is not concerned that a leftist can't have a sane discussion on this website. But he IS concerned that a bigoted racist can't be openly bigoted at work. Weird. I wonder why it is that Sam Altman is so concerned about the rights of bigots to be openly bigoted? Definitely couldn't be related to his relationship with Peter Thiel. No way...
    • nine_k 9y ago
      I don't see left agenda oppressed on HN. E.g. posts about universal basic income, allegedly a rather left-wing policy, appear here often, are highly upvoted and, to my mind, discussed in a quite civil manner.
      • kbenson 9y ago
        It's always easier to assume that your argument is being dismissed because the other side is ignorant or intolerant. As dang points out in a sibling comment to yours, it seems to be universal. I've found most of HN willing to dive fairly deep on any topic as long as you remain respectful and don't present your self unwilling to actually reconsider your opinion. The problem is that all too often, assholes don't realize that how much an asshole they are comes across very clearly in how they present themselves or their ideas, and many people don't like interacting with assholes. The other problem is that we're all assholes sometimes.
      • 9y ago
• bambax 9y ago
  Yes, but in Beijing, you see, you can discuss radical life extension with fellow Chinese billionaires. That really changes everything. /s
• alehul 9y ago
  You're absolutely right that the Bay Area offers more freedom than India or China in terms of safely espousing your views. In our lack of government-imposed restrictions, however, we've come to restrict ourselves as a society, and many believe that we've taken these restrictions too far. America has progressed through openness to ideological diversity, and through healthily engaging in debate. We're lucky that those who have created/promoted controversial technologies and ideas have been able to so legally, but what is it worth if they're never engaged with? What is all of our ethnic diversity worth if everyone, full of unique perspectives, is forced to tiptoe around most subjects? It's great to have freedom of speech, but its societal value is substantially diminished when we aren't willing to communicate with the people it protects. > UK allowed one Egyptian preacher to openly preach hatred and violence As a side note, our freedom of speech in the US is more hard-wired and extensive than that of the UK, and even we don't allow speech that directly incites violence.
  • Kalium 9y ago
    With the caveat that "incitement" is quite carefully defined.
  • jdtang13 9y ago
    No, not true. The Bay Area is ideologically safer in only two regards: you can criticize the city, and you can criticize the government. If you have personal beliefs that are even a tiny bit different from orthodoxy, Beijing is a far safer place.
    • dmode 9y ago
      Really ? Do you openly discuss LGBT rights in Beijing ? What about rights of Uighur folks in China ? Do you discuss that in Beijing ? What about Tibetian rights ? Is that discussed ?
      • jdtang13 9y ago
        Yes. You can talk to people in Beijing, especially college students, about these issues and more. One of my friends is an ethnic minority in China and talked about these issues with Han Chinese folk with no negative consequences. Many young people in China are also ready to talk about LGBT issues. There is no problem. As long as you don't try to subvert the government or anything, you can talk about it.
• jdtang13 9y ago
  In America, you can criticize the government but cannot talk at all about controversial social issues. Many Americans abide by the rule: "do not talk about politics and religion among polite company." I've known people who have legitimately ended friendships over political opinions. Such a thing is almost unheard of in China. In China, you cannot criticize the government but you can talk all day about social issues, and you will actually hear a diverse range of different opinions on hot-button issues. I've heard all sorts of wacky and very interesting opinions, many of which have forced me to think deeply about my beliefs, when talking with people in Beijing.
  • qihqi 9y ago
    In China you can talk shit of government all you want, many people on the street will even agree it with you. Just don't write and publish it.
  • nostrademons 9y ago
    You can certainly talk about controversial social issues in America, you just have to be prepared for people to not like you. I think you may be running into another facet of American culture and misinterpreting interactions through that lens. In America, you pick your tribe. If you don't like someone, don't hang out with them! Friendships tend to come and go based on your circumstances of the moment, and if they fade away, it's no big deal, you'll make new friends. While in China (and many other places in the world), you're born into a tribe, and people will make significant compromises to their individual happiness to maintain relationships. Many Asian families exhibit behavior that borders on child abuse by American standards and would result in a kid cutting that parent out of their life, while such a thing is basically unheard of in Chinese culture. I've got one Chinese parent and my wife is full Taiwanese-American. This was an uncomfortable cultural difference for both of us to learn, and we still sometimes feel the loss of that social web. But American society makes more sense when you view relationships through the lens of "people only maintain them while it is mutually beneficial and fulfilling for both parties, and if one person doesn't feel like the relationship is worth it they'll end it, and so your actions better bring joy and fulfillment to those around you."
• marchenko 9y ago
  It sounds like sama just discovered that sacred cows are different in different locations. The experience of discussing whether women are are predisposed to avoid tech careers, or the problems associated with ethnic minorities, as a wealthy American speaking with Chinese startup leaders and other expats is probably different from that of speaking to a US audience. I suspect part of the reason is that the wider US audience is more likely to include ethnic minorities, politically active gay people, and ambitious women in tech[1]. I doubt a discussion of Chinese sacred cows would be as open - in fact, I doubt most westerners without expat experience could even detect the absence of many locally controversial topics from the discussion. PC stifling of speech often gets laid at the feet of politics and academia, but the hyperbolic increase in thought-policing really seems to be a tech-related phenomenon intersecting with corporate priorities. There are a lot of people outside of tech and SF who are willing to discuss hard topics as long as everyone is willing to have skin in the game. [1]although I acknowledge that there are a lot of women in Chinese tech and that the social dynamic is different, and suspect that they are more receptive to the idea of sex differences in occupational preferences.
• sheepmullet 9y ago
  > As someone who grew up in India > I find Bay Area by far to be the most open, tolerant, accepting places I have ever lived SF is all about identity politics. Your race, gender, and sexual orientation matters more than your opinions and actions. As a minority you are allowed to have opinions and beliefs that would get a conservative straight white man fired and shunned. I really enjoy pretending to be gay when I go to bars in SF. You get a +10 to tolerance of your ideas.
  • dmode 9y ago
    I don't live in SF. I live in the Bay Area suburbs. SF represents about 1/7th of Bay Area's population. I was referring to overall Bay Area. Although SF is freaking awesome too