5 ms·

> the microbiome is what will typically unlock those diseases or not given the gene set If true, that would be a Nobel-worthy finding. I don't think this is tr

> the microbiome is what will typically unlock those diseases or not given the gene set If true, that would be a Nobel-worthy finding. I don't think this is true, but do you have a citation supporting this for the "typical" genetic disease?

ianai 9y ago
I’ve heard reports that changing out a microbiome has resulted in a few bald people regrowing their hair.
- TheRealPomax 9y ago
  If you've "heard it", but you can't recall where, you should absolutely not believe your own claims. Either find the source again, or concede that you might have made it up. Because you are the easiest person to yourself to deceive into thinking something that isn't true.
toomuchtodo 9y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4290017/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4290017/ https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2017.63 https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2017.63 http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/09/13/wednesday http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/09/13/wed...
will_brown 9y ago
Well I know without anyone reading or commenting on anything I link to I’ll be downvoted into oblivion for even trying to support conversations I’ve had with multiple physicians, still as a physician yourself I ask you to at least weigh in on the following...is it not true that while genetic mutations can be the sole cause of disease that most disease are triggered by a combination of genetics and environmental factors (i.e. not the same as a protein dictating whether you have brown or blue eyes)? To my point re the microbiome google points to multiple studies including but not limited to: > Here are just some of the health conditions that involve our microbes: Acne Antibiotic-associated diarrhea Asthma/allergies Autism Autoimmune diseases Cancer Dental cavities Depression and anxiety Diabetes Eczema Gastric ulcers Hardening of the arteries Inflammatory bowel diseases Malnutrition Obesity http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/microbiome/disease/ http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/microbiome/disease/ >Recent microbiome genome-wide association studies reveal that variants in many human genes involved in immunity and gut architecture are associated with an altered composition of the gut microbiome. https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2017.63?WT.feed_name=subjects_immunology https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2017.63?WT.feed_name=sub... >Researchers have discovered that a powerful guardian gene known to protect against a variety of autoimmune diseases, including type 1 diabetes, is triggered by the bacteria in our gut. https://newatlas.com/guardian-gene-gut-bacteria-diabetes/51190/ https://newatlas.com/guardian-gene-gut-bacteria-diabetes/511...
- carbocation 9y ago
  We can agree on many of the things that you wrote: - You need a combination of genetics + environment to have a phenotype (whether disease or otherwise) - Several conditions have a relationship with the gut microbiome Also, I think you will enjoy this absolutely amazing study that found that the gut microbiome drives cerebral cavernous malformations(!!!) by interactions with TLR4: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature22075 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature22075 So, I just don't think that "typically" the gut microbiome is the driver of disease. In fact, it's a rare enough find that people get Nature papers out of it. But, if it is actually typical, then I stand by my assertion that someone will eventually get a Nobel prize from proving it.
aaavl2821 9y ago
"microbiome" therapies has been one of the hottest areas in biotech the last five or so years. some of the hype has died down, however. microbiome therapies work well in c. difficile infections and some other gut diseases. in this case, you give a patient a set of "good" microbes that fight the "bad" microbes (c. diff). people are studying microbiome therapies for cancer, autoimmune disease, cns disease, etc, but its way too early to tell if any of it is real. there are many challenges: how do you ensure the microbes you administer stay in the body, colonize, and actually produce the molecules you want them to? how do you manage the risk that they interact with other microbe populations in ways that are impossible to predict accurately, but potentially very harmful? how do you manufacture these things in a consistent, high quality way? what is the regulatory path? how do you justify a huge risky r&d investment when you can't patent a microbe? not to mention the biology risk; the "microbiome thesis" sounds nice, but how confident are we that microbes can treat cancer, depression, parkinsons? right now, not very
DoreenMichele 9y ago
I don't think that is far-fetched. The gut contains about 70% of the cells of your immune system. I have a genetic disorder. Working on my gut health has gone a long way towards reversing my symptoms. I don't talk about it as much as I used to because it was a constant shit show from people being completely dismissive, outright calling me crazy and asserting utterly illogical things in the name of their "scientific" bias, like "Your 13+ years of steady forward health progress in the face of your degenerative condition is merely wild coincidence and doesn't prove that you know anything at all. Stranger things have happened!" Cuz, yeah. People who see themselves as scientific and logical are very often not remotely objective. They just have college degrees or whatever to justify their ugly personal prejudices, and don't confuse them with the facts.
- carbocation 9y ago
  I don't think there is a relationship between your personal experience and the OP's claim that diseases, broadly, are typically mediated by the gut microbiome.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    So explain to me how 70% of the body's immune cells being in the gut is unrelated to how diseases are typically mediated. Pretty please.
    - wahern 9y ago
      The gut contains 70% of immune cells because your gut is actually the main point of contact between your body and the external environment. The surface area of your gut is somewhere from 20x to 100x that of your skin. One could just as well argue that because the immune system is so well developed and robust in the gut that it's the last place to look for dysfunction. Or one could argue that a 70% share of immune cells is rather low considering the relative ratio of environmentally-exposed surface area. We could say all kinds of things if we're free to make unsubstantiated conjectures. But we really can't say anything of substance without context and evidence. The human organism is ridiculously complex and consistently defies intuition.

ianai 9y ago

I’ve heard reports that changing out a microbiome has resulted in a few bald people regrowing their hair.

TheRealPomax 9y ago
If you've "heard it", but you can't recall where, you should absolutely not believe your own claims. Either find the source again, or concede that you might have made it up. Because you are the easiest person to yourself to deceive into thinking something that isn't true.

toomuchtodo 9y ago

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4290017/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4290017/ https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2017.63 https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2017.63 http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/09/13/wednesday http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/09/13/wed...

will_brown 9y ago

Well I know without anyone reading or commenting on anything I link to I’ll be downvoted into oblivion for even trying to support conversations I’ve had with multiple physicians, still as a physician yourself I ask you to at least weigh in on the following...is it not true that while genetic mutations can be the sole cause of disease that most disease are triggered by a combination of genetics and environmental factors (i.e. not the same as a protein dictating whether you have brown or blue eyes)? To my point re the microbiome google points to multiple studies including but not limited to: > Here are just some of the health conditions that involve our microbes: Acne Antibiotic-associated diarrhea Asthma/allergies Autism Autoimmune diseases Cancer Dental cavities Depression and anxiety Diabetes Eczema Gastric ulcers Hardening of the arteries Inflammatory bowel diseases Malnutrition Obesity http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/microbiome/disease/ http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/microbiome/disease/ >Recent microbiome genome-wide association studies reveal that variants in many human genes involved in immunity and gut architecture are associated with an altered composition of the gut microbiome. https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2017.63?WT.feed_name=subjects_immunology https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2017.63?WT.feed_name=sub... >Researchers have discovered that a powerful guardian gene known to protect against a variety of autoimmune diseases, including type 1 diabetes, is triggered by the bacteria in our gut. https://newatlas.com/guardian-gene-gut-bacteria-diabetes/51190/ https://newatlas.com/guardian-gene-gut-bacteria-diabetes/511...

carbocation 9y ago
We can agree on many of the things that you wrote: - You need a combination of genetics + environment to have a phenotype (whether disease or otherwise) - Several conditions have a relationship with the gut microbiome Also, I think you will enjoy this absolutely amazing study that found that the gut microbiome drives cerebral cavernous malformations(!!!) by interactions with TLR4: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature22075 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature22075 So, I just don't think that "typically" the gut microbiome is the driver of disease. In fact, it's a rare enough find that people get Nature papers out of it. But, if it is actually typical, then I stand by my assertion that someone will eventually get a Nobel prize from proving it.

aaavl2821 9y ago

"microbiome" therapies has been one of the hottest areas in biotech the last five or so years. some of the hype has died down, however. microbiome therapies work well in c. difficile infections and some other gut diseases. in this case, you give a patient a set of "good" microbes that fight the "bad" microbes (c. diff). people are studying microbiome therapies for cancer, autoimmune disease, cns disease, etc, but its way too early to tell if any of it is real. there are many challenges: how do you ensure the microbes you administer stay in the body, colonize, and actually produce the molecules you want them to? how do you manage the risk that they interact with other microbe populations in ways that are impossible to predict accurately, but potentially very harmful? how do you manufacture these things in a consistent, high quality way? what is the regulatory path? how do you justify a huge risky r&d investment when you can't patent a microbe? not to mention the biology risk; the "microbiome thesis" sounds nice, but how confident are we that microbes can treat cancer, depression, parkinsons? right now, not very

DoreenMichele 9y ago

I don't think that is far-fetched. The gut contains about 70% of the cells of your immune system. I have a genetic disorder. Working on my gut health has gone a long way towards reversing my symptoms. I don't talk about it as much as I used to because it was a constant shit show from people being completely dismissive, outright calling me crazy and asserting utterly illogical things in the name of their "scientific" bias, like "Your 13+ years of steady forward health progress in the face of your degenerative condition is merely wild coincidence and doesn't prove that you know anything at all. Stranger things have happened!" Cuz, yeah. People who see themselves as scientific and logical are very often not remotely objective. They just have college degrees or whatever to justify their ugly personal prejudices, and don't confuse them with the facts.

carbocation 9y ago
I don't think there is a relationship between your personal experience and the OP's claim that diseases, broadly, are typically mediated by the gut microbiome.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  So explain to me how 70% of the body's immune cells being in the gut is unrelated to how diseases are typically mediated. Pretty please.
  - wahern 9y ago
    The gut contains 70% of immune cells because your gut is actually the main point of contact between your body and the external environment. The surface area of your gut is somewhere from 20x to 100x that of your skin. One could just as well argue that because the immune system is so well developed and robust in the gut that it's the last place to look for dysfunction. Or one could argue that a 70% share of immune cells is rather low considering the relative ratio of environmentally-exposed surface area. We could say all kinds of things if we're free to make unsubstantiated conjectures. But we really can't say anything of substance without context and evidence. The human organism is ridiculously complex and consistently defies intuition.