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> If Russian tanks roll NATO will look the other way, because it has no choice. It won't change soon because of years of underinvestment that can't be made good

> If Russian tanks roll NATO will look the other way, because it has no choice. It won't change soon because of years of underinvestment that can't be made good overnight even if huge budgets were suddenly available. Which they aren't. And solution is obvious: pay Ukraine for 1 thousand of tanks, out of 6 thousands they have in reserves, upgraded to latest tech: infrared optics, smart aim, built-in drone on wire, active defense, digital communication and control, etc. So NATO will have +1 thousand of high-tech tanks cheaply AND Ukraine will have +3 thousands of cheaper and less capable tanks, which is enough for defense (they still able to take out 2-3 Russian tanks when properly used in defense). Win-win for NATO and Ukraine. In case of emergency, these tanks can be sent by railroad to any post-Warsaw block country at eastern border of NATO - they already have experience with them.

gaius 9y ago
Even if all those things could be retrofitted - and they probably can't be for less time or money than just restarting the CR2 production line - you still need to recruit and train the crews. It takes years to produce a good tanker, and more years to make a good tank commander. And you also need to recruit and train and equip all the supporting arms too - tanks need a lot of logistics, engineers, mechanics, and all the rest. And even then, pure tank units aren't very effective, you need to also build up infantry, artillery to build combined formations... that is why I say even with vast budgets, it will take a long time.
- v_lisivka 9y ago
  Those things are already retrofitted. Ukraine already refurbishes old tanks and sells them to other countries, e.g. Thailand, under «Oplot» brand to fund line of 8x cheaper «Bulat» tanks for their own army. Eastern Europe has much lower salary, so USA and Western Europe can fund 3-4x larger army using their soldiers. War simulators are proven to be very effective to train crews and commanders. I, personally, use «Hetman: War Stories» for Arma3 to improve my skills, with all helpers turned off, with weakest army against strongest at highest AI level. 1 life and no saves makes me wet and exhausted like real combat because of high price of error. Of course, this is only one piece of defense, but important one. And, of course, local lobbies will try to steer money to their own defense projects, so such decision must be done at NATO or EU level.

gaius 9y ago

Even if all those things could be retrofitted - and they probably can't be for less time or money than just restarting the CR2 production line - you still need to recruit and train the crews. It takes years to produce a good tanker, and more years to make a good tank commander. And you also need to recruit and train and equip all the supporting arms too - tanks need a lot of logistics, engineers, mechanics, and all the rest. And even then, pure tank units aren't very effective, you need to also build up infantry, artillery to build combined formations... that is why I say even with vast budgets, it will take a long time.

v_lisivka 9y ago
Those things are already retrofitted. Ukraine already refurbishes old tanks and sells them to other countries, e.g. Thailand, under «Oplot» brand to fund line of 8x cheaper «Bulat» tanks for their own army. Eastern Europe has much lower salary, so USA and Western Europe can fund 3-4x larger army using their soldiers. War simulators are proven to be very effective to train crews and commanders. I, personally, use «Hetman: War Stories» for Arma3 to improve my skills, with all helpers turned off, with weakest army against strongest at highest AI level. 1 life and no saves makes me wet and exhausted like real combat because of high price of error. Of course, this is only one piece of defense, but important one. And, of course, local lobbies will try to steer money to their own defense projects, so such decision must be done at NATO or EU level.