6 ms·

+1. I fail to see how the NATO is in the 'wrong' here. They broke assurances in 1994 that they made to an entity which failed to exist after 1991. WUT?

mantas 9y ago
Just Russia being Soviet Union successor when it's convenient and claiming to be a new state when it's not.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  Russia yearns for the good old days. Russia isn’t the Soviet Union, it was a part of the Soviet Union, and a member of the “Commonwealth of Independent States” that nominally succeeded it. My understanding is that treaties were reaffirmed with the individual states. Does every non-binding commitment to be Soviet Union apply to Uzbekistan? Estonia? Georgia? What about when the desires of Estonia conflict with the Soviets? What about when the interests of the United States and other big NATO states conflict with the commitments to the various Post-Soviet states?
  - chokolad 9y ago
    > Russia yearns for the good old days. Russia picked up all the Soviet Union debt obligations. All those successor states have been essentially debt free on day one.
    - gandhium 9y ago
      They _tricked_ others to take debt obligations for themselves. Since they took _all_ the Soviet properties as well.
      - chokolad 9y ago
        That's _novel_ interpretation of that deal.
        Giorgi 9y ago
        Yet, that's exactly what happened and you "conveniently" forgot to mention that Russia also took all the SU wealth and reserves. They even pulled back all of the weapons and military vehicles out of the ex-member countries, leaving them exposed and then started to help separatists in the wars against sovereign nations. Russia is shittiest neighbor of them all.
  - mantas 9y ago
    Yet Russia took Soviet Union embassies. Even those that belonged to other countries before USSR annexed them. As well as grandfathered USSR seat in UN security council. Kaliningrad was also given to Soviet Union Even though it was attached to Russian Federation to work around this. If Russia ain't Soviet Union successor, Kaliningrad should be no man's land or returned to Germany. Talking about Estonia.. When Estonia tried to relocate USSR monument, it was Russia which objected.
- chokolad 9y ago
  Can you provide an example of Russia denying Soviet Union's obligations when it was not convenient?
  - gandhium 9y ago
    Accepting blame for Soviet occupation of Baltic states or Poland. Accepting repercussions for Holodomor.
    - chokolad 9y ago
      Soviet Union did not accept the blame for occupation of Baltic states so I don't see how it should be Russia's obligation. Repercussions of Holodomor were deaths of millions of Soviet citizens in Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and Belarus. What do you want Russia to accept here ?
      - mantas 9y ago
        Russia denies it's Soviet Union obligations whenever talks turn to paying reparations for Baltic States occupation or military actions in Czechoslovakia or Hungary. Yet they love Soviet Union obligations when they don't return Lithuania's interwar embassy in Rome. Or when May 8/9 comes around :)
      - gandhium 9y ago
        > Soviet Union did not accept the blame for occupation of Baltic states so I don't see how it should be Russia's obligation. USSR didn't accept 'Tsar's bonds' yet Russia payed them out. So, yeah, double standards. > What do you want Russia to accept here Same as for praising 'Russian' victory over Germany, for example. Accept their involvement.

mantas 9y ago

Just Russia being Soviet Union successor when it's convenient and claiming to be a new state when it's not.

Spooky23 9y ago
Russia yearns for the good old days. Russia isn’t the Soviet Union, it was a part of the Soviet Union, and a member of the “Commonwealth of Independent States” that nominally succeeded it. My understanding is that treaties were reaffirmed with the individual states. Does every non-binding commitment to be Soviet Union apply to Uzbekistan? Estonia? Georgia? What about when the desires of Estonia conflict with the Soviets? What about when the interests of the United States and other big NATO states conflict with the commitments to the various Post-Soviet states?
- chokolad 9y ago
  > Russia yearns for the good old days. Russia picked up all the Soviet Union debt obligations. All those successor states have been essentially debt free on day one.
  - gandhium 9y ago
    They _tricked_ others to take debt obligations for themselves. Since they took _all_ the Soviet properties as well.
    - chokolad 9y ago
      That's _novel_ interpretation of that deal.
      - Giorgi 9y ago
        Yet, that's exactly what happened and you "conveniently" forgot to mention that Russia also took all the SU wealth and reserves. They even pulled back all of the weapons and military vehicles out of the ex-member countries, leaving them exposed and then started to help separatists in the wars against sovereign nations. Russia is shittiest neighbor of them all.
- mantas 9y ago
  Yet Russia took Soviet Union embassies. Even those that belonged to other countries before USSR annexed them. As well as grandfathered USSR seat in UN security council. Kaliningrad was also given to Soviet Union Even though it was attached to Russian Federation to work around this. If Russia ain't Soviet Union successor, Kaliningrad should be no man's land or returned to Germany. Talking about Estonia.. When Estonia tried to relocate USSR monument, it was Russia which objected.
chokolad 9y ago
Can you provide an example of Russia denying Soviet Union's obligations when it was not convenient?
- gandhium 9y ago
  Accepting blame for Soviet occupation of Baltic states or Poland. Accepting repercussions for Holodomor.
  - chokolad 9y ago
    Soviet Union did not accept the blame for occupation of Baltic states so I don't see how it should be Russia's obligation. Repercussions of Holodomor were deaths of millions of Soviet citizens in Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and Belarus. What do you want Russia to accept here ?
    - mantas 9y ago
      Russia denies it's Soviet Union obligations whenever talks turn to paying reparations for Baltic States occupation or military actions in Czechoslovakia or Hungary. Yet they love Soviet Union obligations when they don't return Lithuania's interwar embassy in Rome. Or when May 8/9 comes around :)
    - gandhium 9y ago
      > Soviet Union did not accept the blame for occupation of Baltic states so I don't see how it should be Russia's obligation. USSR didn't accept 'Tsar's bonds' yet Russia payed them out. So, yeah, double standards. > What do you want Russia to accept here Same as for praising 'Russian' victory over Germany, for example. Accept their involvement.