7 ms·

How? How do you move to Nebraska when you have $100/week for food? How do you find a job, when you have literally 0-day you can spend without working? Are the

by d--b 9y ago

How? How do you move to Nebraska when you have $100/week for food? How do you find a job, when you have literally 0-day you can spend without working? Are there really than many jobs for people who flip burgers in Lincoln, Nebraska? And are people who flip burgers in Nebraska so much better?

mjfl 9y ago
I have a friend who makes due on a customer service job for Comcast, pays about $300/month in rent, and still has time to be in a death metal band, travel (to other places in midwest). He's definitely not happy, but he's not starving either. 0% chance of a life like this in San Francisco.
b6 9y ago
> How do you move to Nebraska when you have $100/week for food? How could anyone here answer that question? It's not specific enough to answer. Could it be difficult to do? Yes. Are you trying to claim it's impossible, that people are actually truly trapped? It's not impossible, they are not truly trapped.
- lovich 9y ago
  Bears aren't actually trapped in "bear traps", they can just chew their arm off and bleed to death elsewhere. If you don't have enough money to eat, it's not like you can scrimp and save to spend a lot of money to move while also looking for a new job and still live.
elgenie 9y ago
> How do you move? A train or bus from the Bay Area to Nebraska will run around $100. That’s around the same amount as Bay Area rent costs for just the time spent on the train/bus during the trip. > How do you find a job? To start, “Help Wanted” signs and odd jobs in the usual places (e.g. Home Depot). Then, network or use free internet at public libraries to search for something better. > Are there really many jobs for burger flippers? There are fewer jobs, but also fewer people attempting to get them. > Are people who flip burgers in Nebraska so much better? Of course not. But they live in a place where population has held steady (graying) instead of growing wildly, where there’s plenty of land, and plenty of housing stock on that land, so housing takes 25% of the burger flipping paycheck instead of 75% (don’t forget commuting time in the cost of housing). As a result, their standard of living is higher. The Bay Area, or any high cost area for that matter, is a great place in which to save 20% of one’s income and a terrible one in which to live paycheck-to-paycheck 0%.
- knightofmars 9y ago
  TL;DR: "They should just move." is a naive response to the issue presented. Children and family/friends who are around to support you and also sometimes watch your children are often a reason. Could someone move themselves and their two children? Yes, it would cost $300 (to start). Then you'd need to find a place where all three of you could live before you've actually even found a job. This short-term place to live would likely be a motel, meaning you'd likely be unable to cook and spending more on food to feed yourself and your family. Then you need to figure out child care because you've lost the support network of family (and friends) who were living near you. Physical mobility, moving from state to state, in this country is often much harder than the simplistic viewpoint people seem to give it. If your perspective is that of a single individual with no dependents (even if you're poor) then you're going to think that physical mobility is relatively easy and everyone should be able to do it. If your perspective is that of an individual with dependents then you're going to think that physical mobility could quickly become a challenge if you can't afford the upfront costs and short to mid term costs after you've moved and need to "settle" yourself. There are a lot of, "Sure, but..." responses that usually come about with this type of discussion. "Sure, but why couldn't they temporarily go into debt? Their long-term earnings would put them in a better place eventually." and "Sure, but why aren't they applying for food and/or housing assistance or other programs at the location they're planning to move to." or "Sure, but why couldn't they have family watch their kids while they go to the new place and get setup." The reality is those perspectives are from someone educated enough to understand economics, government programs and how the system works, and someone with a supportive well functioning family. All of which someone working a food-service job is unlikely to have.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    The high CoL states generally have pretty strong tenant protection laws. Talk to friends, family, anyone. Find a couch you can crash on for a week while you find a job. Skip your rent to save up for the move, make a small partial payment and go to court to avoid being evicted quickly. Buy a bus ticket and never look back. Children complicate things and working in a trade that's easy to find another job in makes things easier but the basic workflow is the same.
lr4444lr 9y ago
Oh please: how do the homeless streaming into NYC find their way over in the first place? But let's be charitable: we can fund a one-way ticket back, first class, to their state of residence at a vastly cheaper cost than for housing them on expensive land they will never be productive enough to work their way out of. EDIT: (Because the preceding was hatsher than it had to be without explicit statement of the upside) The point is, if their skill set and ability to advance is little beyond flipping burgers, their cost of living will leave them far better off economically long term in middle American heartland than being forever at the margin of poverty, propped up by municipal welfare in high cost coastal cities.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Oh please: how do the homeless streaming into NYC find their way over in the first place? If it's anything like the mentally ill streaming into SF in some parts of recent history, they are shipped there by outside localities (lots of that's happened with one-way bus tickets for homeless in various directions on the west coast, too, aside from Nevada shipping mentally ill to SF.) > But let's be charitable: we can fund a one-way ticket back, first class, to their state of residence at a vastly cheaper cost than for housing them on expensive land they will never be productive enough to work their way out of Which is a good way to collapse wages and overwhelm infrastructure, both physical and social, in the place they get shipped (which won't be their “state of residence” in most cases, since that's where they are now), but I don't see how that solves any problem.
  - lr4444lr 9y ago
    Yes, same problem, and what's worse is that the Right to Shelter laws specifically governing the city forbid it from applying any type of requirements to be checked beforehand for emergency shelter eligibility. No need to prove residence, lack of income, etc. You show up at the social services offices, city is mandated to find housing for you that night for up to the limit (I think 30 days) by which time you either have to prove eligibility for long term homeless shelter entry, or else you can get back on the same line for the emergency shelter again. Brilliant system. NYC has 10% of the entire USA's homeless population. Significantly more if you count the (probably large) percentage of the 635,000 or so in public housing who will almost never be able to afford even rent-stabilized apartments, and it is estimated that another 50% of that number live in that public housing off-lease. About 10% - 15% of NYC homeless are formally listed as last address "outside NYC". But that likely vastly undercounts, because people might have had a relative or friend where they crashed for a few months, weeks... just long enough to get addresses for a few ids/bills to be switched over. There simply isn't any more cheap land with good public transit infrastructure for new low cost housing, a huge low-skilled (often illegal) immigrant population, and no one wants to face reality.
Helmet 9y ago
> How? How do you move to Nebraska when you have $100/week for food? You scrounge and save up or work odd jobs and get enough to move. > How do you find a job, when you have literally 0-day you can spend without working? There are plenty of jobs. They're not very good jobs, or jobs that most people want to do, but life isn't always about doing what you want. If you cannot afford to live somewhere, you need to move. > And are people who flip burgers in Nebraska so much better? My parents worked jobs equivalent to that in Washington D.C. It became impossible, so they moved to southern Virginia. You can live in southern Virginia on minimum wage jobs. There was food on the table every night, and a roof above our heads. It sucked, don't get me wrong, but we managed.
- CocaKoala 9y ago
  So your proposal is that the single parent work a second job in order to move to Nebraska. Who takes care of her child while she does this? Does the kid go to child care? How does the single parent pay for the child care? Does she need to get a third job to pay for the expense of her second job? What happens when the car she takes to work breaks down, and wipes out her savings? What about when she gets sick because she's working two or three jobs, and is exhausted? I dunno, I think your plan of "everybody who's poor should just move to an area where minimum wage jobs are sufficient to live" is a little poorly thought out.
  - workthrowaway27 9y ago
    That's an uncharitable interpretation of OP's point of view. I interpreted OP as saying something like: these people obviously can't afford to live where they are now, they don't have an reasonable expectation of being able to do so anytime soon, so they need to change what they're doing rather than expecting someone to come rescue them.
    - ballenarosada 9y ago
      This usually looks like homelessness. I think the OP doesn't admit any more charitable interpretation. If you think "change what they're doing" is a cogent policy position, then I don't know what to do with you

by d--b 9y ago

mjfl 9y ago

I have a friend who makes due on a customer service job for Comcast, pays about $300/month in rent, and still has time to be in a death metal band, travel (to other places in midwest). He's definitely not happy, but he's not starving either. 0% chance of a life like this in San Francisco.

b6 9y ago

> How do you move to Nebraska when you have $100/week for food? How could anyone here answer that question? It's not specific enough to answer. Could it be difficult to do? Yes. Are you trying to claim it's impossible, that people are actually truly trapped? It's not impossible, they are not truly trapped.

lovich 9y ago
Bears aren't actually trapped in "bear traps", they can just chew their arm off and bleed to death elsewhere. If you don't have enough money to eat, it's not like you can scrimp and save to spend a lot of money to move while also looking for a new job and still live.

elgenie 9y ago

> How do you move? A train or bus from the Bay Area to Nebraska will run around $100. That’s around the same amount as Bay Area rent costs for just the time spent on the train/bus during the trip. > How do you find a job? To start, “Help Wanted” signs and odd jobs in the usual places (e.g. Home Depot). Then, network or use free internet at public libraries to search for something better. > Are there really many jobs for burger flippers? There are fewer jobs, but also fewer people attempting to get them. > Are people who flip burgers in Nebraska so much better? Of course not. But they live in a place where population has held steady (graying) instead of growing wildly, where there’s plenty of land, and plenty of housing stock on that land, so housing takes 25% of the burger flipping paycheck instead of 75% (don’t forget commuting time in the cost of housing). As a result, their standard of living is higher. The Bay Area, or any high cost area for that matter, is a great place in which to save 20% of one’s income and a terrible one in which to live paycheck-to-paycheck 0%.

knightofmars 9y ago
TL;DR: "They should just move." is a naive response to the issue presented. Children and family/friends who are around to support you and also sometimes watch your children are often a reason. Could someone move themselves and their two children? Yes, it would cost $300 (to start). Then you'd need to find a place where all three of you could live before you've actually even found a job. This short-term place to live would likely be a motel, meaning you'd likely be unable to cook and spending more on food to feed yourself and your family. Then you need to figure out child care because you've lost the support network of family (and friends) who were living near you. Physical mobility, moving from state to state, in this country is often much harder than the simplistic viewpoint people seem to give it. If your perspective is that of a single individual with no dependents (even if you're poor) then you're going to think that physical mobility is relatively easy and everyone should be able to do it. If your perspective is that of an individual with dependents then you're going to think that physical mobility could quickly become a challenge if you can't afford the upfront costs and short to mid term costs after you've moved and need to "settle" yourself. There are a lot of, "Sure, but..." responses that usually come about with this type of discussion. "Sure, but why couldn't they temporarily go into debt? Their long-term earnings would put them in a better place eventually." and "Sure, but why aren't they applying for food and/or housing assistance or other programs at the location they're planning to move to." or "Sure, but why couldn't they have family watch their kids while they go to the new place and get setup." The reality is those perspectives are from someone educated enough to understand economics, government programs and how the system works, and someone with a supportive well functioning family. All of which someone working a food-service job is unlikely to have.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  The high CoL states generally have pretty strong tenant protection laws. Talk to friends, family, anyone. Find a couch you can crash on for a week while you find a job. Skip your rent to save up for the move, make a small partial payment and go to court to avoid being evicted quickly. Buy a bus ticket and never look back. Children complicate things and working in a trade that's easy to find another job in makes things easier but the basic workflow is the same.

lr4444lr 9y ago

Oh please: how do the homeless streaming into NYC find their way over in the first place? But let's be charitable: we can fund a one-way ticket back, first class, to their state of residence at a vastly cheaper cost than for housing them on expensive land they will never be productive enough to work their way out of. EDIT: (Because the preceding was hatsher than it had to be without explicit statement of the upside) The point is, if their skill set and ability to advance is little beyond flipping burgers, their cost of living will leave them far better off economically long term in middle American heartland than being forever at the margin of poverty, propped up by municipal welfare in high cost coastal cities.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> Oh please: how do the homeless streaming into NYC find their way over in the first place? If it's anything like the mentally ill streaming into SF in some parts of recent history, they are shipped there by outside localities (lots of that's happened with one-way bus tickets for homeless in various directions on the west coast, too, aside from Nevada shipping mentally ill to SF.) > But let's be charitable: we can fund a one-way ticket back, first class, to their state of residence at a vastly cheaper cost than for housing them on expensive land they will never be productive enough to work their way out of Which is a good way to collapse wages and overwhelm infrastructure, both physical and social, in the place they get shipped (which won't be their “state of residence” in most cases, since that's where they are now), but I don't see how that solves any problem.
- lr4444lr 9y ago
  Yes, same problem, and what's worse is that the Right to Shelter laws specifically governing the city forbid it from applying any type of requirements to be checked beforehand for emergency shelter eligibility. No need to prove residence, lack of income, etc. You show up at the social services offices, city is mandated to find housing for you that night for up to the limit (I think 30 days) by which time you either have to prove eligibility for long term homeless shelter entry, or else you can get back on the same line for the emergency shelter again. Brilliant system. NYC has 10% of the entire USA's homeless population. Significantly more if you count the (probably large) percentage of the 635,000 or so in public housing who will almost never be able to afford even rent-stabilized apartments, and it is estimated that another 50% of that number live in that public housing off-lease. About 10% - 15% of NYC homeless are formally listed as last address "outside NYC". But that likely vastly undercounts, because people might have had a relative or friend where they crashed for a few months, weeks... just long enough to get addresses for a few ids/bills to be switched over. There simply isn't any more cheap land with good public transit infrastructure for new low cost housing, a huge low-skilled (often illegal) immigrant population, and no one wants to face reality.

Helmet 9y ago

> How? How do you move to Nebraska when you have $100/week for food? You scrounge and save up or work odd jobs and get enough to move. > How do you find a job, when you have literally 0-day you can spend without working? There are plenty of jobs. They're not very good jobs, or jobs that most people want to do, but life isn't always about doing what you want. If you cannot afford to live somewhere, you need to move. > And are people who flip burgers in Nebraska so much better? My parents worked jobs equivalent to that in Washington D.C. It became impossible, so they moved to southern Virginia. You can live in southern Virginia on minimum wage jobs. There was food on the table every night, and a roof above our heads. It sucked, don't get me wrong, but we managed.

CocaKoala 9y ago
So your proposal is that the single parent work a second job in order to move to Nebraska. Who takes care of her child while she does this? Does the kid go to child care? How does the single parent pay for the child care? Does she need to get a third job to pay for the expense of her second job? What happens when the car she takes to work breaks down, and wipes out her savings? What about when she gets sick because she's working two or three jobs, and is exhausted? I dunno, I think your plan of "everybody who's poor should just move to an area where minimum wage jobs are sufficient to live" is a little poorly thought out.
- workthrowaway27 9y ago
  That's an uncharitable interpretation of OP's point of view. I interpreted OP as saying something like: these people obviously can't afford to live where they are now, they don't have an reasonable expectation of being able to do so anytime soon, so they need to change what they're doing rather than expecting someone to come rescue them.
  - ballenarosada 9y ago
    This usually looks like homelessness. I think the OP doesn't admit any more charitable interpretation. If you think "change what they're doing" is a cogent policy position, then I don't know what to do with you