4 ms·

Why do these kinds of investigations only ever stop at the perpetrator of the attack? In rushing to market, these IoT companies pushed out a defective, insecure

Why do these kinds of investigations only ever stop at the perpetrator of the attack? In rushing to market, these IoT companies pushed out a defective, insecure product. Such an attack would not be possible without vulnerable hosts to hijack, so why aren't the IoT hardware companies investigated or fined?

slededit 9y ago
Its not illegal to leave your door unlocked.
- majewsky 9y ago
  At least in Germany, it's illegal to leave your car door unlocked. (Not sure about house doors.) The rationale is that it invites crime.
  - docdeek 9y ago
    I didn't know that. Is it possible, then, that a person who leaves their door unlocked is punished while the person who stole and dumped the car is not?
    - mlnj 9y ago
      And is that not a classic case of victim blaming?
      - StudentStuff 9y ago
        It is victim blaming, but some countries obviously deem that acceptable behavior, to the point of putting it into law.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    - majewsky 9y ago
      Wtf, no. The person stealing the car is of course punished as a thief. (Unless he doesn't get caught, obviously.)
  - PurpleRamen 9y ago
    Actually it's illegal to lock the housedoor, because of emergency situations. In case something happend and the people need to flee, they could be trapped in the house. Also technically it's not illegal to leave your car door unlocked, Police just handles it that way. The law demands that the car cannot be misused.
    - wlesieutre 9y ago
      It's not illegal to lock your house door, that's only locks that require a key to unlock from inside. Normal deadbolts are fine. You just can't lock people in. Example here http://www.ahouseonarock.com/chesterfieldhomeinspector/double-keyed-deadbolts/ http://www.ahouseonarock.com/chesterfieldhomeinspector/doubl... People have used these thinking "Someone could break the glass, reach in, and turn the deadbolt to open the door," but it's really not worth the trade-off of "My house is on fire and I can't get out."
- akerro 9y ago
  It is in some countries. The logic is: if you lock your car, it is harder to steal. If it's stolen because you left it open, it's your fault and you pay for police time and investigation. If a policeman sees your car unlocked they can give you a ticket for leaving that way.
  - StudentStuff 9y ago
    What about those of us that don't want our car window bashed in by some crackhead cause the door is locked? I'd much rather lose a few ones and tens in my coin drawer than buy a new window.
- Cthulhu_ 9y ago
  Maybe not, but the insurance will shrug at you if you make a claim for theft.
  - StudentStuff 9y ago
    What are you storing in your car that is worth more than your deductible? Here in Seattle, in certain bad areas you'll find numerous car doors unlocked, usually cause the owner doesn't want their window to get smashed by a crackhead over a sub-$100 potential theft.
jimbo999 9y ago
>so why aren't the IoT hardware companies investigated or fined? By whom? Where do you imagine these devices are made / manufactured?
- akerro 9y ago
  By the police. >Where do you imagine these devices are made / manufactured? It doesn't matter. If Chinese, Thai, US, Spanic or Russian company wants to sell their device in Europe they have to comply to CEER (Council of European Energy Regulators) regulations, we need similar regulating body for software. Since we have lamps and phone chargers that don't blow power sockets and don't burn houses, we need software that doesn't blow Internet and burn cables.
  - Cthulhu_ 9y ago
    Are you sure about that last claim? There's a huge load of substandard, fake or not certified electrics coming in, also thanks to big online webshops that send directly to consumers. And the consumers don't care, they have a basic expectation of quality and no idea of things like electrical safety, fire risks or RF emissions.
    - akerro 9y ago
      I read recently that a guy in Poland had his Bitcoin miners Antminers worth 100k USD confiscated at the border check because it was not certified, it didn't have CEER labels: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fdowbit.pl%2Fkoparka-kryptowalut-skonfiskowana-gdanskim-lotnisku%2F&edit-text= https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...
      - StudentStuff 9y ago
        Yeah, but its akin to banning drugs through the mail. Unless we open and inspect everything mailed into a country (which would be a massive make work program of the likes we've rarely seen), you can't stop it all. AliExpress, Deal Extreme and eBay are going to keep selling goods with fake CE and UL labels that are substandard, despite regulations to the contrary. If your country does need a make work program, hiring many postal inspectors wouldn't be the worst make work program yet. I think the TSA wins that :P

slededit 9y ago

Its not illegal to leave your door unlocked.

majewsky 9y ago
At least in Germany, it's illegal to leave your car door unlocked. (Not sure about house doors.) The rationale is that it invites crime.
- docdeek 9y ago
  I didn't know that. Is it possible, then, that a person who leaves their door unlocked is punished while the person who stole and dumped the car is not?
  - mlnj 9y ago
    And is that not a classic case of victim blaming?
    - StudentStuff 9y ago
      It is victim blaming, but some countries obviously deem that acceptable behavior, to the point of putting it into law.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - majewsky 9y ago
    Wtf, no. The person stealing the car is of course punished as a thief. (Unless he doesn't get caught, obviously.)
- PurpleRamen 9y ago
  Actually it's illegal to lock the housedoor, because of emergency situations. In case something happend and the people need to flee, they could be trapped in the house. Also technically it's not illegal to leave your car door unlocked, Police just handles it that way. The law demands that the car cannot be misused.
  - wlesieutre 9y ago
    It's not illegal to lock your house door, that's only locks that require a key to unlock from inside. Normal deadbolts are fine. You just can't lock people in. Example here http://www.ahouseonarock.com/chesterfieldhomeinspector/double-keyed-deadbolts/ http://www.ahouseonarock.com/chesterfieldhomeinspector/doubl... People have used these thinking "Someone could break the glass, reach in, and turn the deadbolt to open the door," but it's really not worth the trade-off of "My house is on fire and I can't get out."
akerro 9y ago
It is in some countries. The logic is: if you lock your car, it is harder to steal. If it's stolen because you left it open, it's your fault and you pay for police time and investigation. If a policeman sees your car unlocked they can give you a ticket for leaving that way.
- StudentStuff 9y ago
  What about those of us that don't want our car window bashed in by some crackhead cause the door is locked? I'd much rather lose a few ones and tens in my coin drawer than buy a new window.
Cthulhu_ 9y ago
Maybe not, but the insurance will shrug at you if you make a claim for theft.
- StudentStuff 9y ago
  What are you storing in your car that is worth more than your deductible? Here in Seattle, in certain bad areas you'll find numerous car doors unlocked, usually cause the owner doesn't want their window to get smashed by a crackhead over a sub-$100 potential theft.

jimbo999 9y ago

>so why aren't the IoT hardware companies investigated or fined? By whom? Where do you imagine these devices are made / manufactured?

akerro 9y ago
By the police. >Where do you imagine these devices are made / manufactured? It doesn't matter. If Chinese, Thai, US, Spanic or Russian company wants to sell their device in Europe they have to comply to CEER (Council of European Energy Regulators) regulations, we need similar regulating body for software. Since we have lamps and phone chargers that don't blow power sockets and don't burn houses, we need software that doesn't blow Internet and burn cables.
- Cthulhu_ 9y ago
  Are you sure about that last claim? There's a huge load of substandard, fake or not certified electrics coming in, also thanks to big online webshops that send directly to consumers. And the consumers don't care, they have a basic expectation of quality and no idea of things like electrical safety, fire risks or RF emissions.
  - akerro 9y ago
    I read recently that a guy in Poland had his Bitcoin miners Antminers worth 100k USD confiscated at the border check because it was not certified, it didn't have CEER labels: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fdowbit.pl%2Fkoparka-kryptowalut-skonfiskowana-gdanskim-lotnisku%2F&edit-text= https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...
    - StudentStuff 9y ago
      Yeah, but its akin to banning drugs through the mail. Unless we open and inspect everything mailed into a country (which would be a massive make work program of the likes we've rarely seen), you can't stop it all. AliExpress, Deal Extreme and eBay are going to keep selling goods with fake CE and UL labels that are substandard, despite regulations to the contrary. If your country does need a make work program, hiring many postal inspectors wouldn't be the worst make work program yet. I think the TSA wins that :P