5 ms·

Super Smash Bros. Melee: An “Untouchable” Agent

64 points by jasonjmcghee 9y ago

bfirsh 9y ago
If you're on a phone, here's an HTML version of the paper: https://www.arxiv-vanity.com/papers/1712.03280/ https://www.arxiv-vanity.com/papers/1712.03280/
- modulus1 9y ago
  Thanks, the video link in the pdf doesn't work, but the one here does: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9SX5ANPyMzTNWgtMzdqa2JVQWM https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9SX5ANPyMzTNWgtMzdq...
tibbetts 9y ago
If you just wanted the videos: https://goo.gl/x67ioE https://goo.gl/x67ioE.
jimrandomh 9y ago
> It learned to avoid the toughest AI built into the game for a full minute 74.6% of the time No results against humans, though.
joshuamorton 9y ago
Mildly confused: The paper claims there are only 5 used actions, but I also observed wavedashing. Also as an aside this is yet another in a series of not as cool as I'd hoped melee ML projects :(
- jasonjmcghee 9y ago
  "The agent has access to five actions to choose from: do nothing, left dodge, right dodge, standing dodge, and Fox’s shine (essentially a shield that pushes opponents away)." Possibly classified as left/right dodge?
  - ibrault 9y ago
    It requires a shine, jump, and then a left/right dodge executed in a specific time frame, which makes it seem like it was programmed in. My guess is that they just wanted to focus on the deep learning and not get bogged down in Melee mechanics/terminology.
  - joshuamorton 9y ago
    Left/right dodges are the rolls. Wavedashes are a more complex maneuver.
- webkike 9y ago
  Wave dashing is a combination of actions, not a single action.
  - Narhem 9y ago
    Well its a series of actions not a combination.
  - ibrault 9y ago
    It requires jumping though, which isn't listed as an action
- chis 9y ago
  I was pretty impressed by the Falcon AI earlier this year. He actually used modern reinforcement learning to train from 0 instead of the crappy built in AI. Also, his AI was limited to near-human reaction time (10 frames) which led to a more human-looking agent. At the end of the day these papers are from master's students. I think they're both impressive in that context. https://arxiv.org/pdf/1702.06230.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1702.06230.pdf
  - joshuamorton 9y ago
    > Falcon AI which one is that, I hadn't seen it (and its not the one you linked).
  - adameast9000 9y ago
    Interestingly the reason they chose falcon was that he has no projectile attacks. I also remember hearing that it could only play against other falcons, and only on battlefield. But it could have been improved since then
ibrault 9y ago
In the discussion they mention: > The major limitation of our project was the opposing player. Of course, we would have preferred training against human players who play Melee professionally. An alternative training method could be through the use of the 20XX hack pack [0], a mod of Super Smash Bros Melee that adds, among many useful features, an improved AI. Here's a video of the AI from release 4.05 in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzl5NXV5bHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzl5NXV5bHQ The built-in SSBM AI is very noticeably different from competitive play, and the 20XX AI makes significant steps toward more human-like competitive play. It would be interesting to see the results if trained on these AI. [0] https://smashboards.com/threads/the-20xx-melee-training-hack-pack-v4-07-7-04-17.351221/ https://smashboards.com/threads/the-20xx-melee-training-hack...
- clouddrover 9y ago
  > The built-in SSBM AI is very noticeably different from competitive play And not necessarily that clever. Here are examples of the CPU losing to a player who does nothing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwDngBhmQXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwDngBhmQXY
  - agscala 9y ago
    This is not an example of dumb AI. cpus will lose to a non moving Luigi in more than one smash game. It's intentional behavior.
    - drdeca 9y ago
      Are you sure that it is intentional?
    - adameast9000 9y ago
      Can you prove that it's intentional? It looks more like a very specific positioning of the character relative to the map and a lot of trial and error that is causing the cpu to kill itself
      - 9y ago
cowsrool 9y ago
https://github.com/altf4/SmashBot https://github.com/altf4/SmashBot Here is an AI that beat a ton of pro melee players. Video here https://youtu.be/o1bfQWy8o08 https://youtu.be/o1bfQWy8o08
cwyers 9y ago
Google Drive says the videos have exceeded some limit and can no longer be played. Which, to me, suggests that maybe Google Drive is not the best place to host videos.
angel_j 9y ago
"Our modern ML AI lasted almost a minute against 15 y.o. hand-coded AI, 74.5% of the time!"

64 points by jasonjmcghee 9y ago

If you're on a phone, here's an HTML version of the paper: https://www.arxiv-vanity.com/papers/1712.03280/ https://www.arxiv-vanity.com/papers/1712.03280/

modulus1 9y ago
Thanks, the video link in the pdf doesn't work, but the one here does: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9SX5ANPyMzTNWgtMzdqa2JVQWM https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9SX5ANPyMzTNWgtMzdq...

tibbetts 9y ago

If you just wanted the videos: https://goo.gl/x67ioE https://goo.gl/x67ioE.

jimrandomh 9y ago

> It learned to avoid the toughest AI built into the game for a full minute 74.6% of the time No results against humans, though.

joshuamorton 9y ago

Mildly confused: The paper claims there are only 5 used actions, but I also observed wavedashing. Also as an aside this is yet another in a series of not as cool as I'd hoped melee ML projects :(

jasonjmcghee 9y ago
"The agent has access to five actions to choose from: do nothing, left dodge, right dodge, standing dodge, and Fox’s shine (essentially a shield that pushes opponents away)." Possibly classified as left/right dodge?
- ibrault 9y ago
  It requires a shine, jump, and then a left/right dodge executed in a specific time frame, which makes it seem like it was programmed in. My guess is that they just wanted to focus on the deep learning and not get bogged down in Melee mechanics/terminology.
- joshuamorton 9y ago
  Left/right dodges are the rolls. Wavedashes are a more complex maneuver.
webkike 9y ago
Wave dashing is a combination of actions, not a single action.
- Narhem 9y ago
  Well its a series of actions not a combination.
- ibrault 9y ago
  It requires jumping though, which isn't listed as an action
chis 9y ago
I was pretty impressed by the Falcon AI earlier this year. He actually used modern reinforcement learning to train from 0 instead of the crappy built in AI. Also, his AI was limited to near-human reaction time (10 frames) which led to a more human-looking agent. At the end of the day these papers are from master's students. I think they're both impressive in that context. https://arxiv.org/pdf/1702.06230.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1702.06230.pdf
- joshuamorton 9y ago
  > Falcon AI which one is that, I hadn't seen it (and its not the one you linked).
- adameast9000 9y ago
  Interestingly the reason they chose falcon was that he has no projectile attacks. I also remember hearing that it could only play against other falcons, and only on battlefield. But it could have been improved since then

ibrault 9y ago

In the discussion they mention: > The major limitation of our project was the opposing player. Of course, we would have preferred training against human players who play Melee professionally. An alternative training method could be through the use of the 20XX hack pack [0], a mod of Super Smash Bros Melee that adds, among many useful features, an improved AI. Here's a video of the AI from release 4.05 in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzl5NXV5bHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzl5NXV5bHQ The built-in SSBM AI is very noticeably different from competitive play, and the 20XX AI makes significant steps toward more human-like competitive play. It would be interesting to see the results if trained on these AI. [0] https://smashboards.com/threads/the-20xx-melee-training-hack-pack-v4-07-7-04-17.351221/ https://smashboards.com/threads/the-20xx-melee-training-hack...

clouddrover 9y ago
> The built-in SSBM AI is very noticeably different from competitive play And not necessarily that clever. Here are examples of the CPU losing to a player who does nothing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwDngBhmQXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwDngBhmQXY
- agscala 9y ago
  This is not an example of dumb AI. cpus will lose to a non moving Luigi in more than one smash game. It's intentional behavior.
  - drdeca 9y ago
    Are you sure that it is intentional?
  - adameast9000 9y ago
    Can you prove that it's intentional? It looks more like a very specific positioning of the character relative to the map and a lot of trial and error that is causing the cpu to kill itself
    - 9y ago

cowsrool 9y ago

https://github.com/altf4/SmashBot https://github.com/altf4/SmashBot Here is an AI that beat a ton of pro melee players. Video here https://youtu.be/o1bfQWy8o08 https://youtu.be/o1bfQWy8o08

cwyers 9y ago

Google Drive says the videos have exceeded some limit and can no longer be played. Which, to me, suggests that maybe Google Drive is not the best place to host videos.

angel_j 9y ago

"Our modern ML AI lasted almost a minute against 15 y.o. hand-coded AI, 74.5% of the time!"