4 ms·

They can garnish his wages after a small livable wage is achieved. Basically it will be almost impossible to ever get out of subsistence living. With his skil

They can garnish his wages after a small livable wage is achieved. Basically it will be almost impossible to ever get out of subsistence living. With his skill he may actually have a chance after a decade or two.

dmix 9y ago
Wow, the implications of that are quite interesting. The effects of his sentencing can technically last for decades after he is out of jail. Funny how you never hear much about that in these trials... But agreed being a convicted hacker won’t prevent him from being employed. Even by the government...
- daxorid 9y ago
  It's pretty standard fare when it comes to the career ambitions of prosecutors. One of the "better" cases is that of Stephen Watt, who was hit with such insane restitution and fines ($170MM) that he will never escape poverty. For writing code. Not hacking, not exploiting systems or keylogging (someone else did that), not even intending his code to be used for these purposes. Just writing the code. Federal prosecutors and judges are horrible, unfathomably evil people.
  - rayiner 9y ago
    > For writing code. Not hacking, not exploiting systems or keylogging (someone else did that), not even intending his code to be used for these purposes. Just writing the code. That's quite a misrepresentation of the situation: https://www.wired.com/2009/12/stephen-watt https://www.wired.com/2009/12/stephen-watt. > Stephen Watt, a 25-year-old former Morgan Stanley software engineer, pleaded guilty last December to creating a custom sniffing program dubbed “blabla” that Gonzalez and other hackers used to siphon millions of credit and debit card numbers from TJX's network. The breach cost TJX $200 million, according to its 2009 SEC filing. > Prosecutors never alleged that Watt received money for the software he wrote, or directly profited from the hacks. But they brandished more than 300 pages of chats the two friends exchanged that belied Watt's stated ignorance. > As Gonzalez and his accomplices hacked target after target, he sent Watt links to news stories describing a tidal wave of debit fraud spreading around the world. It's like saying "oh, I just made a timer circuit for my friend who I knew was blowing up buildings." Note: the $170 million isn't a "fine." It's restitution. Those are two different things. A fine is used to punish bad conduct. Restitution is used to make a victim whole. Conduct that isn't that "bad" can nonetheless result in huge restitution if it resulted in large damages to the victim. Don't do stuff that can result in huge damages if you don't want to be on the hook for them.
    - phillipwills 9y ago
      I don't know... There's a lot that's not being said in that article... As is the case in all articles about court cases... Or court cases, in general. I feel a very real, "burn the witch" attitude when it comes to hackers and coders mixing with the justice system...
      - pm90 9y ago
        It seems more like hackers tend to be a less aware of the seriousness of certain actions. There is much praise and awe for someone capable of getting past the security systems of big corporations, and some programmers want to prove themselves by doing that. What seems to be lost in the conversation is that it’s not just a technical feat, it might be a crime. The law may be a little outdated, and yes more awareness is necessary. Until it’s changed though it is prudent to be careful about such things.
- fapjacks 9y ago
  After an incident in my teens in the 90s, I've thought about this at length. The only conclusion I ever seem to draw is one of more criminal activity. Yes, I can hear the inbound downvotes, but I'm just being intellectually honest. How can we expect this kid to reform if we ensure he'll be living without any kind of reward for decades to come? Seems like some jail time would be much more productive. A $250k fine is a 10-20 year sentence of subsistence living. That's probably the worst way to try and give someone the "right" moral compass. The chances we'll reform someone are slim, compared to getting someone jaded by the sentence and incentivized to commit more crime just to get ahead. We won't be rehabilitating this guy with a fine like that.
  - meri_dian 9y ago
    It's not about him though. It's about signaling to everyone else that these crimes are taken seriously and will not be tolerated.
    - intralizee 9y ago
      It's not ethical to use a human life for that message.
      - SamReidHughes 9y ago
        Do you mean it's not moral? Because that's what would make it bad. I'd say it's morally wrong not to do so. Part of moral governance is to protect people from bad guys.
        intralizee 9y ago
        I believe both are the case.
- ryanlol 9y ago
  He can move out of the country and never pay a penny.
  - slededit 9y ago
    Most countries bar tourist visas to felons, let alone residency permits.
    - ryanlol 9y ago
      Ah, I guess I sometimes forget just how lucky I am to be an EU citizen. However, there's still a plenty of nice places that don't ask too many questions.
PeterisP 9y ago
If he gets a $100k+ job in IT security, he'll have paid the fine in three years.
- slededit 9y ago
  Are you forgetting the 30%+ in taxes not to mention living expenses?
- paxy 9y ago
  With that record he isn't getting hired anywhere.

dmix 9y ago

Wow, the implications of that are quite interesting. The effects of his sentencing can technically last for decades after he is out of jail. Funny how you never hear much about that in these trials... But agreed being a convicted hacker won’t prevent him from being employed. Even by the government...

daxorid 9y ago
It's pretty standard fare when it comes to the career ambitions of prosecutors. One of the "better" cases is that of Stephen Watt, who was hit with such insane restitution and fines ($170MM) that he will never escape poverty. For writing code. Not hacking, not exploiting systems or keylogging (someone else did that), not even intending his code to be used for these purposes. Just writing the code. Federal prosecutors and judges are horrible, unfathomably evil people.
- rayiner 9y ago
  > For writing code. Not hacking, not exploiting systems or keylogging (someone else did that), not even intending his code to be used for these purposes. Just writing the code. That's quite a misrepresentation of the situation: https://www.wired.com/2009/12/stephen-watt https://www.wired.com/2009/12/stephen-watt. > Stephen Watt, a 25-year-old former Morgan Stanley software engineer, pleaded guilty last December to creating a custom sniffing program dubbed “blabla” that Gonzalez and other hackers used to siphon millions of credit and debit card numbers from TJX's network. The breach cost TJX $200 million, according to its 2009 SEC filing. > Prosecutors never alleged that Watt received money for the software he wrote, or directly profited from the hacks. But they brandished more than 300 pages of chats the two friends exchanged that belied Watt's stated ignorance. > As Gonzalez and his accomplices hacked target after target, he sent Watt links to news stories describing a tidal wave of debit fraud spreading around the world. It's like saying "oh, I just made a timer circuit for my friend who I knew was blowing up buildings." Note: the $170 million isn't a "fine." It's restitution. Those are two different things. A fine is used to punish bad conduct. Restitution is used to make a victim whole. Conduct that isn't that "bad" can nonetheless result in huge restitution if it resulted in large damages to the victim. Don't do stuff that can result in huge damages if you don't want to be on the hook for them.
  - phillipwills 9y ago
    I don't know... There's a lot that's not being said in that article... As is the case in all articles about court cases... Or court cases, in general. I feel a very real, "burn the witch" attitude when it comes to hackers and coders mixing with the justice system...
    - pm90 9y ago
      It seems more like hackers tend to be a less aware of the seriousness of certain actions. There is much praise and awe for someone capable of getting past the security systems of big corporations, and some programmers want to prove themselves by doing that. What seems to be lost in the conversation is that it’s not just a technical feat, it might be a crime. The law may be a little outdated, and yes more awareness is necessary. Until it’s changed though it is prudent to be careful about such things.
fapjacks 9y ago
After an incident in my teens in the 90s, I've thought about this at length. The only conclusion I ever seem to draw is one of more criminal activity. Yes, I can hear the inbound downvotes, but I'm just being intellectually honest. How can we expect this kid to reform if we ensure he'll be living without any kind of reward for decades to come? Seems like some jail time would be much more productive. A $250k fine is a 10-20 year sentence of subsistence living. That's probably the worst way to try and give someone the "right" moral compass. The chances we'll reform someone are slim, compared to getting someone jaded by the sentence and incentivized to commit more crime just to get ahead. We won't be rehabilitating this guy with a fine like that.
- meri_dian 9y ago
  It's not about him though. It's about signaling to everyone else that these crimes are taken seriously and will not be tolerated.
  - intralizee 9y ago
    It's not ethical to use a human life for that message.
    - SamReidHughes 9y ago
      Do you mean it's not moral? Because that's what would make it bad. I'd say it's morally wrong not to do so. Part of moral governance is to protect people from bad guys.
      - intralizee 9y ago
        I believe both are the case.
ryanlol 9y ago
He can move out of the country and never pay a penny.
- slededit 9y ago
  Most countries bar tourist visas to felons, let alone residency permits.
  - ryanlol 9y ago
    Ah, I guess I sometimes forget just how lucky I am to be an EU citizen. However, there's still a plenty of nice places that don't ask too many questions.

PeterisP 9y ago

If he gets a $100k+ job in IT security, he'll have paid the fine in three years.

slededit 9y ago
Are you forgetting the 30%+ in taxes not to mention living expenses?
paxy 9y ago
With that record he isn't getting hired anywhere.