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That money are the proceeds from Apples sales outside the US where they paid off Ireland to get essentially a 0% tax rate. No tax at all has been paid on these

That money are the proceeds from Apples sales outside the US where they paid off Ireland to get essentially a 0% tax rate. No tax at all has been paid on these profits, and you are now asking for it to be transferred to the US for no tax either. Now the proper thing would be for that money to be taxed in Europe, and the EU commission has been working on that to get Ireland in line, but right now you are essentially asking for the biggest company in the world to pay a 0% tax rate on their overseas profit.

giobox 9y ago
> Now the proper thing would be for that money to be taxed in Europe Of course Europeans like this argument, but is it really correct for those profits to be taxed in Europe? Did substantial value creation occur there? I'd argue not really, and at any rate Apple will have generated substantial sales, import/export, income tax revenues etc for those foreign countries in which they do operate. The IP that lead to these profits is however clearly mainly created in the USA. I'm not stupid enough to pretend I have a good answer for this hugely complex problem, but it's clear that arguing that "the proper thing would be for that money to be taxed in Europe" is a gross over-simplification. When we talk about the EU we are talking about 28 separate sovereign States, each with their own separate tax collection laws and organisations. The body whose work that lead to those profits is for the most part 5000 miles away.
- revelation 9y ago
  It's 5000 miles away, to the east in China or to the west in California? I think we can spend years discussing where that value is created. From a purely practical point of view, Apple will only be able to sell their goods in the EU and pay no taxes on the profits for as long as they can keep finding another Ireland. And those seem to be in short supply in the future.
  - MarkMc 9y ago
    > to the east in China or to the west in California? To the west in California. In China, Foxconn makes very little profit (ie. adds little value) for each iPhone they manufacture. > I think we can spend years discussing where that value is created. If you consider what would happen if Apple's EU sales operations were a separate company, it becomes clear which company would make the bulk of the profit (ie. which company produces the most value). > From a purely practical point of view, Apple will only be able to sell their goods in the EU and pay no taxes on the profits for as long as they can keep finding another Ireland. Why couldn't Apple just spin off its EU operations as an entirely separate company? Apple US would have a very strong bargaining position when selling iPhones - it could charge Apple EU a wholesale price which was very close to the retail price. Apple EU would therefore make very little profit and pay very little tax to EU authorities.
deleted 9y ago
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giobox 9y ago

> Now the proper thing would be for that money to be taxed in Europe Of course Europeans like this argument, but is it really correct for those profits to be taxed in Europe? Did substantial value creation occur there? I'd argue not really, and at any rate Apple will have generated substantial sales, import/export, income tax revenues etc for those foreign countries in which they do operate. The IP that lead to these profits is however clearly mainly created in the USA. I'm not stupid enough to pretend I have a good answer for this hugely complex problem, but it's clear that arguing that "the proper thing would be for that money to be taxed in Europe" is a gross over-simplification. When we talk about the EU we are talking about 28 separate sovereign States, each with their own separate tax collection laws and organisations. The body whose work that lead to those profits is for the most part 5000 miles away.

revelation 9y ago
It's 5000 miles away, to the east in China or to the west in California? I think we can spend years discussing where that value is created. From a purely practical point of view, Apple will only be able to sell their goods in the EU and pay no taxes on the profits for as long as they can keep finding another Ireland. And those seem to be in short supply in the future.
- MarkMc 9y ago
  > to the east in China or to the west in California? To the west in California. In China, Foxconn makes very little profit (ie. adds little value) for each iPhone they manufacture. > I think we can spend years discussing where that value is created. If you consider what would happen if Apple's EU sales operations were a separate company, it becomes clear which company would make the bulk of the profit (ie. which company produces the most value). > From a purely practical point of view, Apple will only be able to sell their goods in the EU and pay no taxes on the profits for as long as they can keep finding another Ireland. Why couldn't Apple just spin off its EU operations as an entirely separate company? Apple US would have a very strong bargaining position when selling iPhones - it could charge Apple EU a wholesale price which was very close to the retail price. Apple EU would therefore make very little profit and pay very little tax to EU authorities.

deleted 9y ago

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