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This thread reminds me that even on HN most comments on the internet are from people with very little understanding. I expected the "bubble", "tulip", "no value

This thread reminds me that even on HN most comments on the internet are from people with very little understanding. I expected the "bubble", "tulip", "no value" arguments to come from the chicken littles on Forbes. If you think Bitcoin is overvalued, fine. Pour yourself a stiff drink and accept some people might lose some money. The sort of emotional hyperbole on here about "cryptocurrencies need to be banned by the loving, paternal, incorruptible government to save the world from ourselves" is not just getting old, its absurd. Having a censorship-resistant, globally-accepted asset would grant an unparalleled financial opportunity. Even if Bitcoin falls short in practice – it’s closer to the mark than any non-crypto asset. Being able to send money around the world with real-time market-based fees that are often lower than many alternatives is useful. Having a place to park value when banking is not available is also useful. The list goes on… Do you trust the government and the financial institutions that much that you're willing to hand them back the reigns of your financial future?

fatjokes 9y ago
> The sort of emotional hyperbole on here about "cryptocurrencies need to be banned by the loving, paternal, incorruptible government to save the world from ourselves" is not just getting old, its absurd. Why is it "getting old"? It's a fair concern that something so volatile should be examined critically and relentlessly. People don't just "get a stiff drink and accept they'll lose money" if it goes down---they jump out of windows. I'm hesitant to jump in cryptocurrency discussions because 1) I know too little about them, even at a technical level and 2) they're consistently filled with "emotional hyperbole" (that we agree on) from both ends. I think governments/regulators should have some say the same way you'd want them to regulate any financial instrument and punish Ponzi schemers and pump-and-dumpers. I'd like to think about the motives of both sides from being so passionate. For naysayers, I imagine it's a bit of sour grapes. For yaysayers, it's a bit more obvious---once the hype dies, they'll stop making money.
- neuro_imager 9y ago
  > It's a fair concern that something so volatile should be examined critically and relentlessly. I agree - but backed with concerns based on legitimate understanding not "price is going up quickly, must be a scam". > I think governments/regulators should have some say the same way you'd want them to regulate any financial instrument and punish Ponzi schemers and pump-and-dumpers. Because they did such a great job in 2008? When are they planning to punish the architects of the financial crisis? Who's going after the banks when they launder money for mexican cartels and ISIS? You really think these people are trying to protect the public? > I'd like to think about the motives of both sides from being so passionate. I can't speak for anyone else but I come to these threads hoping to find sensible insight and technical analysis not "THIS IS A BUBBLE! BAN IT!" > For yaysayers, it's a bit more obvious---once the hype dies, they'll stop making money. There may well be a huge correction but the overall market is anti-fragile and here to stay. An article that sums up my thoughts: https://www.callmegwei.com/2017/11/24/crypto-price-isnt-an-end/ https://www.callmegwei.com/2017/11/24/crypto-price-isnt-an-e...
  - fatjokes 9y ago
    > I agree - but backed with concerns based on legitimate understanding not "price is going up quickly, must be a scam". Something that goes up and down so quickly and so frequently does warrant concern. Nobody has that understanding at the moment and it needs investigating. > Because they did such a great job in 2008? Maybe not the American government, but IIRC, Iceland is punishing the bankers (jail!) and the Canadian government has been praised for having kept a steady ship during the crisis through their economic policies. Governments can work.
    - mrwong 9y ago
      Your realize that pointing yo the tiny nation of Iceland as the only one who actually put people in jail just sounds like sarcasm
    - colordrops 9y ago
      > Something that goes up and down so quickly and so frequently does warrant concern. Why is "going up and down so quickly" inherently bad? There's no moral or legal standard on volatility. It's just a metric, everyone is aware of it, and everyone should act accordingly.
- petre 9y ago
  You probably don't live in Zimbawe, Venezuela or trying to get money out of China or another country for that matter. If you want to take over 10 grand out of the country you have to declare it or risk having it siezed.
  - UncleMeat 9y ago
    I don't, you are right. But then why would I buy BTC? I don't need it if I live in the US. If it is so amazingly valuable to people in these countries, then why are we buying it and hoarding it instead of giving it to the people in need?
    - petre 9y ago
      Because it's the current get-rich-quick scheme and human nature is rather selfish than altruistic? Because it's been a good tools to store value and move it over borders?
mundo 9y ago
> "cryptocurrencies need to be banned by the loving, paternal, incorruptible government to save the world from ourselves" If you're going to summarize the other side's position, do so in a way that they would agree with.
- neuro_imager 9y ago
  Well there are people on here that are saying literally: - cryptocurrencies should be banned - government regulation is the solution (with the implication that government is extremely concerned about the well-being of the populace in general, and investors/speculators specifically) - the people investing don't know what they are doing and need to be protected from potential losses If there's something I've left out from this particular argument please let me know.
SCAQTony 9y ago
I believe Venezuela, Zimbabwe, South Sudan, Argentina and others greatly appreciate Bitcoin as a store of value due to their hyperinflation travails. These locations are the exact places where a complete loss trust exists toward government and the financial institutions therein.

fatjokes 9y ago

> The sort of emotional hyperbole on here about "cryptocurrencies need to be banned by the loving, paternal, incorruptible government to save the world from ourselves" is not just getting old, its absurd. Why is it "getting old"? It's a fair concern that something so volatile should be examined critically and relentlessly. People don't just "get a stiff drink and accept they'll lose money" if it goes down---they jump out of windows. I'm hesitant to jump in cryptocurrency discussions because 1) I know too little about them, even at a technical level and 2) they're consistently filled with "emotional hyperbole" (that we agree on) from both ends. I think governments/regulators should have some say the same way you'd want them to regulate any financial instrument and punish Ponzi schemers and pump-and-dumpers. I'd like to think about the motives of both sides from being so passionate. For naysayers, I imagine it's a bit of sour grapes. For yaysayers, it's a bit more obvious---once the hype dies, they'll stop making money.

neuro_imager 9y ago
> It's a fair concern that something so volatile should be examined critically and relentlessly. I agree - but backed with concerns based on legitimate understanding not "price is going up quickly, must be a scam". > I think governments/regulators should have some say the same way you'd want them to regulate any financial instrument and punish Ponzi schemers and pump-and-dumpers. Because they did such a great job in 2008? When are they planning to punish the architects of the financial crisis? Who's going after the banks when they launder money for mexican cartels and ISIS? You really think these people are trying to protect the public? > I'd like to think about the motives of both sides from being so passionate. I can't speak for anyone else but I come to these threads hoping to find sensible insight and technical analysis not "THIS IS A BUBBLE! BAN IT!" > For yaysayers, it's a bit more obvious---once the hype dies, they'll stop making money. There may well be a huge correction but the overall market is anti-fragile and here to stay. An article that sums up my thoughts: https://www.callmegwei.com/2017/11/24/crypto-price-isnt-an-end/ https://www.callmegwei.com/2017/11/24/crypto-price-isnt-an-e...
- fatjokes 9y ago
  > I agree - but backed with concerns based on legitimate understanding not "price is going up quickly, must be a scam". Something that goes up and down so quickly and so frequently does warrant concern. Nobody has that understanding at the moment and it needs investigating. > Because they did such a great job in 2008? Maybe not the American government, but IIRC, Iceland is punishing the bankers (jail!) and the Canadian government has been praised for having kept a steady ship during the crisis through their economic policies. Governments can work.
  - mrwong 9y ago
    Your realize that pointing yo the tiny nation of Iceland as the only one who actually put people in jail just sounds like sarcasm
  - colordrops 9y ago
    > Something that goes up and down so quickly and so frequently does warrant concern. Why is "going up and down so quickly" inherently bad? There's no moral or legal standard on volatility. It's just a metric, everyone is aware of it, and everyone should act accordingly.
petre 9y ago
You probably don't live in Zimbawe, Venezuela or trying to get money out of China or another country for that matter. If you want to take over 10 grand out of the country you have to declare it or risk having it siezed.
- UncleMeat 9y ago
  I don't, you are right. But then why would I buy BTC? I don't need it if I live in the US. If it is so amazingly valuable to people in these countries, then why are we buying it and hoarding it instead of giving it to the people in need?
  - petre 9y ago
    Because it's the current get-rich-quick scheme and human nature is rather selfish than altruistic? Because it's been a good tools to store value and move it over borders?

mundo 9y ago

> "cryptocurrencies need to be banned by the loving, paternal, incorruptible government to save the world from ourselves" If you're going to summarize the other side's position, do so in a way that they would agree with.

neuro_imager 9y ago
Well there are people on here that are saying literally: - cryptocurrencies should be banned - government regulation is the solution (with the implication that government is extremely concerned about the well-being of the populace in general, and investors/speculators specifically) - the people investing don't know what they are doing and need to be protected from potential losses If there's something I've left out from this particular argument please let me know.

SCAQTony 9y ago

I believe Venezuela, Zimbabwe, South Sudan, Argentina and others greatly appreciate Bitcoin as a store of value due to their hyperinflation travails. These locations are the exact places where a complete loss trust exists toward government and the financial institutions therein.