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Well, for computer science, that does seem to be the case. But not for engineering, physical sciences or math. And considering that most people are granted a de

Well, for computer science, that does seem to be the case. But not for engineering, physical sciences or math. And considering that most people are granted a degree before they enter the workforce, I don't believe it can entirely be the workforce culture that's deterring them. So I guess I would argue that it's just as likely to be how we message technology as how we treat women in the workforce, if not both.

ucaetano 9y ago
Or it could be that computer science (what most people refer as "tech") came to be dominated by the boy's club videogame/nerd culture from the early 80's, which pushed women out. It goes back to another topic here on HN: I don't know of any other career so dominated by a culture as SWE/tech.
- Danihan 9y ago
  Sure, I think you're probably correct that rampant video game culture probably did begin to alienate women, even back in the eighties, since they saw that computers were mostly being used as tools for violent competition and most women were not very interested in that. That's where our opinions will probably diverge though, because I also believe boys glean more enjoyment from video games simply because they are biologically-predisposed to enjoy violent / high-stakes competitions more intensely. http://www.radford.edu/~mzorrilla2/thesis/differencesinplay.html http://www.radford.edu/~mzorrilla2/thesis/differencesinplay.... http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0042/7590/Do_Boys_and_Girls_View_Competition_in_Different_Ways.pdf http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0042/7590/Do_Boy... It's not just video games, look at the gender ratios in competitive poker, or chess, or debate. All very similar. Since there seems to be a strong chance that the root of the problem is innate / hormonal / biological it's not an issue that's "easy" to even rationally discuss, let alone solve, as you keep stating throughout the thread.
  - ucaetano 9y ago
    > video games simply because they are biologically-predisposed to enjoy violent / high-stakes competitions more intensely. You're making the assumption that all games must be competitive and violent and therefore women will enjoy it less. That is wrong. Not only women enjoy video games as much as men, they already outnumber men in gaming in many markets. Every time you make an assumption, think if that assumption is being driven by gender stereotypes. "Since there seems to be a strong chance that the root of the problem is innate / hormonal / biological it's not an issue that's "easy" to even rationally discuss, let alone solve, as you keep stating throughout the thread." No, women liked technology, then they were pushed out by a hostile culture. The problem isn't hormonal or biological, it's cultural. The problem isn't women not liking violent games, is men treating women like shit.
    - Danihan 9y ago
      >Every time you make an assumption, think if that assumption is being driven by gender stereotypes. I have, and most of the time the stereotypes have some truth to them, however unfortunate it may be. > The problem isn't hormonal or biological, it's cultural. Culture doesn't spring into existence from a vacuum, it arises from the aggregation and normalization of the biological impulses and drives of many people.

ucaetano 9y ago

Or it could be that computer science (what most people refer as "tech") came to be dominated by the boy's club videogame/nerd culture from the early 80's, which pushed women out. It goes back to another topic here on HN: I don't know of any other career so dominated by a culture as SWE/tech.

Danihan 9y ago
Sure, I think you're probably correct that rampant video game culture probably did begin to alienate women, even back in the eighties, since they saw that computers were mostly being used as tools for violent competition and most women were not very interested in that. That's where our opinions will probably diverge though, because I also believe boys glean more enjoyment from video games simply because they are biologically-predisposed to enjoy violent / high-stakes competitions more intensely. http://www.radford.edu/~mzorrilla2/thesis/differencesinplay.html http://www.radford.edu/~mzorrilla2/thesis/differencesinplay.... http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0042/7590/Do_Boys_and_Girls_View_Competition_in_Different_Ways.pdf http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0042/7590/Do_Boy... It's not just video games, look at the gender ratios in competitive poker, or chess, or debate. All very similar. Since there seems to be a strong chance that the root of the problem is innate / hormonal / biological it's not an issue that's "easy" to even rationally discuss, let alone solve, as you keep stating throughout the thread.
- ucaetano 9y ago
  > video games simply because they are biologically-predisposed to enjoy violent / high-stakes competitions more intensely. You're making the assumption that all games must be competitive and violent and therefore women will enjoy it less. That is wrong. Not only women enjoy video games as much as men, they already outnumber men in gaming in many markets. Every time you make an assumption, think if that assumption is being driven by gender stereotypes. "Since there seems to be a strong chance that the root of the problem is innate / hormonal / biological it's not an issue that's "easy" to even rationally discuss, let alone solve, as you keep stating throughout the thread." No, women liked technology, then they were pushed out by a hostile culture. The problem isn't hormonal or biological, it's cultural. The problem isn't women not liking violent games, is men treating women like shit.
  - Danihan 9y ago
    >Every time you make an assumption, think if that assumption is being driven by gender stereotypes. I have, and most of the time the stereotypes have some truth to them, however unfortunate it may be. > The problem isn't hormonal or biological, it's cultural. Culture doesn't spring into existence from a vacuum, it arises from the aggregation and normalization of the biological impulses and drives of many people.