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I teach mathematics at a community college. I definitely don't teach like I'm the student. A large majority of my students don't like mathematics and don't wa

I teach mathematics at a community college. I definitely don't teach like I'm the student. A large majority of my students don't like mathematics and don't want to be in the class. If I taught like I was the students only a few people would pass. Few of my students have the desire to know, to learn that I had as a student. I think his advice best applies to a group of students who care about learning and want to learn. It doesn't apply to those who don't possess these qualities.

sanderjd 16y ago
Out of curiosity, if this is the case, why should more than a few people in the class pass? Do you believe that shoving the material down these unwilling students' throats in such a way that they are able to pass results in a higher portion of them gaining and retaining the knowledge than would have otherwise? To me it sounds like very few in this class are interested in or successful at learning your material, so what is the definition of "passing" a class?
- yequalsx 16y ago
  It's a very good question to ask what it means to pass a class. It's also a difficult one to answer but I'll try. More than a few people should pass because that's what the Board of Regents, the college president, the Governor, the Legislature, and society at large want and they pay my salary. This isn't a flippant statement. In my state one of the Board of Regents wants my pay to be dependent upon how many people pass my class. Every year the president of the college sends a report to the Department of Mathematics and asks what we are doing to improve the passing rate. The state wants three things, 1. we must accept anyone who applies 2. we should pass almost everyone who takes our classes 3. everyone who passes should 'know' the material You can have any two of these things but not all three. I have a lot of pressure from the administration and so my perception of what skills it takes to pass has been a decreasing function for the past 10 years. Almost all of my colleagues give point based on things that a well trained chimp can do. They give points for attendance. They give points for turning in homework. (The homework doesn't have to be correct to get the points.) My colleagues try their hardest to give students enough points so that they can reach the magical 70% thresh hold. Some have lowered this magical thresh hold to 60%. What it means to pass a class is a level of achievement that most people in the class can reasonably achieve. It has nothing to do with knowledge, skills, or anything that really matters in terms of learning. Will 70% of the students pass with this grading scheme, with these assignments, with this level of work and effort? If the answer is yes then you've got a good idea of what it means to pass a class. This has bad, long term consequences for society writ large. I'm aware of this and I try the best I can to reach as many students as possible. I definitely don't teach my students as if I was in the audience. I'm an outlier in terms of mathematical talent and interest. It would be insane for me to teach as if I was in the class.
  - SoftwareMaven 16y ago
    My personal opinion is this goes back to the same mentality that gives everybody a trophy for playing soccer. We are trained from first grade that you just need to show up to succeed. Almost every experience from kindergarten to a high school diploma emphasizes that. Can't let it stop with college or a job, now can we? I love teaching a room full of interested, motivated people. It's too bad I can't become a teacher to do that. :(
  - aprrrr 16y ago
    It seems like the meat of the course and how you grade it are somewhat orthogonal. Have you ever tried teaching it for real, however you think the semester would best be spent, then just curve/inflate/whatever the grades to get the desired distribution at the end?
    - yequalsx 16y ago
      They are orthogonal to a large degree. What you say happens quite frequently. Mostly, I'm teaching to 3 or 4 students. That's how many are interested on average.
Sukotto 16y ago
You might like the dy/dan blog http://blog.mrmeyer.com http://blog.mrmeyer.com His focus is on elementry/high school but I think his approach would also make college-level classes much more interesting. There's also this delightful post from btilly http://bentilly.blogspot.com/2009/09/teaching-linear-algebra.html http://bentilly.blogspot.com/2009/09/teaching-linear-algebra... that I found wonderfully informative. Make sure you read the q/a in the comments.
- yequalsx 16y ago
  I've seen both of those. I have incorporated some of their suggestions into my classes. Some of their techniques don't fit my personality. The way I learn mathematics is suited only for a small percentage of the population. As an example, I have little use for diagrams. I don't think in terms of geometry but in terms of abstract definitions. I don't need a diagram to conceptualize and understand that pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. Even with diagrams most of my students don't understand what this means. Meyer's enthusiasm is contagious and I appreciate that about him. It's exceptional, in fact. It's also not duplicable by most teachers. He's found a style that works for him. It doesn't work for everyone though. One of his methods involves watching videos of water pouring out of a container and experimentally verifying whether or not his calculations make sense. For me, this is a great big yawn. I could not bear watching such a thing in a class as a student. The real problem in education, as I see it, is that schools do a terrible job of matching student personality with teacher personality. I believe that solving this problem would significantly increase retention and learning. It's hard to fit a teaching method to a personality that isn't predisposed to such a method. It just doesn't work. The human interaction dynamic of such a class is a mess.
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  - trafficlight 16y ago

sanderjd 16y ago

Out of curiosity, if this is the case, why should more than a few people in the class pass? Do you believe that shoving the material down these unwilling students' throats in such a way that they are able to pass results in a higher portion of them gaining and retaining the knowledge than would have otherwise? To me it sounds like very few in this class are interested in or successful at learning your material, so what is the definition of "passing" a class?

yequalsx 16y ago
It's a very good question to ask what it means to pass a class. It's also a difficult one to answer but I'll try. More than a few people should pass because that's what the Board of Regents, the college president, the Governor, the Legislature, and society at large want and they pay my salary. This isn't a flippant statement. In my state one of the Board of Regents wants my pay to be dependent upon how many people pass my class. Every year the president of the college sends a report to the Department of Mathematics and asks what we are doing to improve the passing rate. The state wants three things, 1. we must accept anyone who applies 2. we should pass almost everyone who takes our classes 3. everyone who passes should 'know' the material You can have any two of these things but not all three. I have a lot of pressure from the administration and so my perception of what skills it takes to pass has been a decreasing function for the past 10 years. Almost all of my colleagues give point based on things that a well trained chimp can do. They give points for attendance. They give points for turning in homework. (The homework doesn't have to be correct to get the points.) My colleagues try their hardest to give students enough points so that they can reach the magical 70% thresh hold. Some have lowered this magical thresh hold to 60%. What it means to pass a class is a level of achievement that most people in the class can reasonably achieve. It has nothing to do with knowledge, skills, or anything that really matters in terms of learning. Will 70% of the students pass with this grading scheme, with these assignments, with this level of work and effort? If the answer is yes then you've got a good idea of what it means to pass a class. This has bad, long term consequences for society writ large. I'm aware of this and I try the best I can to reach as many students as possible. I definitely don't teach my students as if I was in the audience. I'm an outlier in terms of mathematical talent and interest. It would be insane for me to teach as if I was in the class.
- SoftwareMaven 16y ago
  My personal opinion is this goes back to the same mentality that gives everybody a trophy for playing soccer. We are trained from first grade that you just need to show up to succeed. Almost every experience from kindergarten to a high school diploma emphasizes that. Can't let it stop with college or a job, now can we? I love teaching a room full of interested, motivated people. It's too bad I can't become a teacher to do that. :(
- aprrrr 16y ago
  It seems like the meat of the course and how you grade it are somewhat orthogonal. Have you ever tried teaching it for real, however you think the semester would best be spent, then just curve/inflate/whatever the grades to get the desired distribution at the end?
  - yequalsx 16y ago
    They are orthogonal to a large degree. What you say happens quite frequently. Mostly, I'm teaching to 3 or 4 students. That's how many are interested on average.

Sukotto 16y ago

You might like the dy/dan blog http://blog.mrmeyer.com http://blog.mrmeyer.com His focus is on elementry/high school but I think his approach would also make college-level classes much more interesting. There's also this delightful post from btilly http://bentilly.blogspot.com/2009/09/teaching-linear-algebra.html http://bentilly.blogspot.com/2009/09/teaching-linear-algebra... that I found wonderfully informative. Make sure you read the q/a in the comments.

yequalsx 16y ago
I've seen both of those. I have incorporated some of their suggestions into my classes. Some of their techniques don't fit my personality. The way I learn mathematics is suited only for a small percentage of the population. As an example, I have little use for diagrams. I don't think in terms of geometry but in terms of abstract definitions. I don't need a diagram to conceptualize and understand that pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. Even with diagrams most of my students don't understand what this means. Meyer's enthusiasm is contagious and I appreciate that about him. It's exceptional, in fact. It's also not duplicable by most teachers. He's found a style that works for him. It doesn't work for everyone though. One of his methods involves watching videos of water pouring out of a container and experimentally verifying whether or not his calculations make sense. For me, this is a great big yawn. I could not bear watching such a thing in a class as a student. The real problem in education, as I see it, is that schools do a terrible job of matching student personality with teacher personality. I believe that solving this problem would significantly increase retention and learning. It's hard to fit a teaching method to a personality that isn't predisposed to such a method. It just doesn't work. The human interaction dynamic of such a class is a mess.
- deleted 16y ago
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- trafficlight 16y ago