7 ms·

One critique, if you explore leaving your company don't use it as a bargaining chip. That raise your boss offers you is only to buy him enough time to find you

One critique, if you explore leaving your company don't use it as a bargaining chip. That raise your boss offers you is only to buy him enough time to find your replacement. You will not be viewed in the same light or with the same dedication to the "team," justified or not.

yummyfajitas 16y ago
That depends on the nature of your work. If you are an artisan doing commodity work (read: bored at work, your open source project is fun), you are absolutely right. You are underutilized and easily replaceable, and your boss will want to replace you with someone cheaper. Regardless of the size of the counteroffer, you should leave. If you are doing work that few others can do, and you make it clear that your only problem is money, they will accept that you looked outside just to get a market valuation. This is especially true if you accept a counteroffer lower than your external offer (i.e., "I like this place enough to accept $10k less").
- TWAndrews 16y ago
  But if you take a counter less than your outside offer, try to get some non-financial compensation (i.e. extra vacation, at least verbal commitment regarding a promotion, etc.)
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    The point I was making is that it might help to acknowledge non-financial comp you already get. I really like my job and I wouldn't work at a bank for a $20k pay raise. I don't need my boss to increase the non-financial comp if he can't fully meet a bank's offer, since I already get it. (Our vacation policy is "don't be unreasonable" and our only ranks are "founder/owner" and "everyone else".)
  - hrabago 16y ago
    Extra vacation, sure. A promotion? That depends on what you're already doing, and when responsibilities a promotion carries. I've seen several instances where people got promoted but didn't receive an adequate enough raise. If you believe you deserve more pay for what you're doing, asking to do more to get a bit more money may mean you're still on the losing end of the deal.
GavinB 16y ago
This may be true for some bosses, but it's not a good general rule. You often don't hear about it, getting an outside offer and a raise happens all the time, and within a month it's pretty much forgotten. If you present it by saying "I really love it here and want to stay, but the compensation being offered here is really good," then your boss should be fine. If your boss can't handle a business negotiation, then you should be looking to get out anyway. Bottom line: it's a market, and you have to negotiate. Once the papers are signed, things usually go back to normal.
- sigstoat 16y ago
  "it's a market" and "you have to negotiate" can't be stressed enough. hell, the simple fact that you can negotiate should be stressed more.
  - omouse 16y ago
    you know what else should be stressed? collective bargaining..it helps sometimes when your fellow coworkers band together to get a raise or to make the work environment better.
    - eru 16y ago
      Do you have experience with collective bargaining? As far as I can tell lots of hackers abhor it.
      - sigstoat 16y ago
        in my experience they abhor what you get when you start handing money and power to the collective, and stop paying attention to what it's doing to you.
      - omouse 16y ago
        They abhor it but they may never have tried it. A lot of other workers have collectively bargained and received higher pay and other non-pay benefits. Also, it's not like you have to form a union or anything. Just collectively bargain for a raise or whatever this one time.
astine 16y ago
Not in my experience. My company spent months waffling over a raise for me. My boss suggested that I look for work elsewhere and then used it as bargaining chip and got me the raise. I can't easily be replaced and as long as what they're paying me is less than what I'm making them, they don't want to lose me. Everyone's situation is different however.
TWAndrews 16y ago
I don't really think that's typically the case. If they think you'll be relatively easily replaced, they'll just let you go when you tell them you have an offer.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  The point is they might keep you on for a month or two until they find your replacement (and the other job offer evaporates), then let you go. A lot of companies are shady enough to do this.
nowarninglabel 16y ago
Completely disagree, both from the perspective as an employee who has used it as a bargaining chip, and as part of evaluating my own assistants. I've not viewed my assistants in a different light, and the only difference I noticed from my own bargaining was an acknowledgement of my value to the enterprise. Most people understand that it is a free job market and good talent will ask for increased compensation as their value grows over time. I'd rather have someone under me ask for more pay than grumble about not getting what they believe they deserver (and having the bargaining chip of an offer from another company shows they truly are worth that much).

yummyfajitas 16y ago

That depends on the nature of your work. If you are an artisan doing commodity work (read: bored at work, your open source project is fun), you are absolutely right. You are underutilized and easily replaceable, and your boss will want to replace you with someone cheaper. Regardless of the size of the counteroffer, you should leave. If you are doing work that few others can do, and you make it clear that your only problem is money, they will accept that you looked outside just to get a market valuation. This is especially true if you accept a counteroffer lower than your external offer (i.e., "I like this place enough to accept $10k less").

TWAndrews 16y ago
But if you take a counter less than your outside offer, try to get some non-financial compensation (i.e. extra vacation, at least verbal commitment regarding a promotion, etc.)
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  The point I was making is that it might help to acknowledge non-financial comp you already get. I really like my job and I wouldn't work at a bank for a $20k pay raise. I don't need my boss to increase the non-financial comp if he can't fully meet a bank's offer, since I already get it. (Our vacation policy is "don't be unreasonable" and our only ranks are "founder/owner" and "everyone else".)
- hrabago 16y ago
  Extra vacation, sure. A promotion? That depends on what you're already doing, and when responsibilities a promotion carries. I've seen several instances where people got promoted but didn't receive an adequate enough raise. If you believe you deserve more pay for what you're doing, asking to do more to get a bit more money may mean you're still on the losing end of the deal.

GavinB 16y ago

This may be true for some bosses, but it's not a good general rule. You often don't hear about it, getting an outside offer and a raise happens all the time, and within a month it's pretty much forgotten. If you present it by saying "I really love it here and want to stay, but the compensation being offered here is really good," then your boss should be fine. If your boss can't handle a business negotiation, then you should be looking to get out anyway. Bottom line: it's a market, and you have to negotiate. Once the papers are signed, things usually go back to normal.

sigstoat 16y ago
"it's a market" and "you have to negotiate" can't be stressed enough. hell, the simple fact that you can negotiate should be stressed more.
- omouse 16y ago
  you know what else should be stressed? collective bargaining..it helps sometimes when your fellow coworkers band together to get a raise or to make the work environment better.
  - eru 16y ago
    Do you have experience with collective bargaining? As far as I can tell lots of hackers abhor it.
    - sigstoat 16y ago
      in my experience they abhor what you get when you start handing money and power to the collective, and stop paying attention to what it's doing to you.
    - omouse 16y ago
      They abhor it but they may never have tried it. A lot of other workers have collectively bargained and received higher pay and other non-pay benefits. Also, it's not like you have to form a union or anything. Just collectively bargain for a raise or whatever this one time.

astine 16y ago

Not in my experience. My company spent months waffling over a raise for me. My boss suggested that I look for work elsewhere and then used it as bargaining chip and got me the raise. I can't easily be replaced and as long as what they're paying me is less than what I'm making them, they don't want to lose me. Everyone's situation is different however.

TWAndrews 16y ago

I don't really think that's typically the case. If they think you'll be relatively easily replaced, they'll just let you go when you tell them you have an offer.

yummyfajitas 16y ago
The point is they might keep you on for a month or two until they find your replacement (and the other job offer evaporates), then let you go. A lot of companies are shady enough to do this.

nowarninglabel 16y ago

Completely disagree, both from the perspective as an employee who has used it as a bargaining chip, and as part of evaluating my own assistants. I've not viewed my assistants in a different light, and the only difference I noticed from my own bargaining was an acknowledgement of my value to the enterprise. Most people understand that it is a free job market and good talent will ask for increased compensation as their value grows over time. I'd rather have someone under me ask for more pay than grumble about not getting what they believe they deserver (and having the bargaining chip of an offer from another company shows they truly are worth that much).