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> people will migrate to get better benefits and services, which makes delivery of those services impossible A couple of decades ago, a large town in New Hamps

> people will migrate to get better benefits and services, which makes delivery of those services impossible A couple of decades ago, a large town in New Hampshire obtained federal funds to build low-cost housing. But the housing brought in people who used more local services. Services whose cost was only partially defrayed by the state and federal governments. So the town then bought up low-cost housing, and tore it down.

DoreenMichele 9y ago
About 10-15% of the US population is below the Federal poverty line in any given year, but only 2% are chronically poor. This is typically defined as below the Federal poverty line at least 5 years out of 10. My thinking is we need enough low cost housing for 2% of the population. This would help keep the chronically poor -- those with intractable personal problems -- off the street. I am currently thinking a lot about how to address the issue effectively. I am not for growing homeless services or similar programs. My latest project is aimed at making flexible earned income a viable option, for both homeless people and people with the kinds of barriers to employment that can lead to homelessness: http://independentdigitalworkers.blogspot.com http://independentdigitalworkers.blogspot.com It isn't charity. It is part of how I got myself off the street.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  What about assisted living type arrangements for the chronically poor or mentally ill? I have family members who work in social welfare and housing. The most frustrating and emotionally draining cases for them are when folks don’t have the support network that they need. This was especially true for veterans (including dishonorably discharged), battered women, the mentally ill and substance abusers. Perhaps having someone there to help who is trusted makes a difference. Personally, I find it bizarre when in a thread or other discussion on this topic, compassion is viewed as being permissive to folks living on the streets or in public parks. The US doesn’t need to bring back tenements or have the city park be a camp for the indigent. We’re in a golden age of plenty — with a good plan and a few less aircraft carriers this problem could be a lot better.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    We are in a golden age of plenty where 99 percent of people are losing ground and 1 percent are getting richer. There is certainly a place for supportive services in resolving this, but my personal goal is to restore agency, autonomy and self sufficiency to low income people as much as possible. Given some of your other remarks here, I think it is not unjustified in assuming that you simply see poor people as folks who need to be stripped of rights and bossed around by someone else. This is not my idea if supportive services. I am very leery of people proposing so called supportive services that will actually just be some new means to deny people agency. Charity does not give anyone a middle class life. You get that by working for it. I have special needs and so do my sons. We aren't stupid, lazy or incompetent. We do need maneuvering room to do things as we see fit. That is the very first thing most programs strip you of. Then we wonder why people cannot get out if their mess. I don't expect everyone to be able to solve their problems if given the opportunity. But I do think we currently actively deny poor people opportunities to solve their own problems and then blame them for failing. I would like to see a reduction in the amount that society does to actively undermine poor people.
    - Spooky23 9y ago
      I can totally see part of your perspective. Part of what I do as a thought experiment or learning exercise in forums like this is explore and look for meaning in complex issues. I tend to take a hard line on overall risk to the public. I don't live in a place where dropping a cigarette can immolate square miles of land. The thought is terrifying to me. Perhaps that comes off too strong.
      - DoreenMichele 9y ago
        Yes, California has a season I never had anyplace else I lived: Fire Season. I am completely happy to have left that behind. But the reality is that edge cases of this sort usually are not a good place to start basing policy off of. There is a saying along the lines of "Hard cases make bad laws." I am all for finding solutions to help get people off the street and help people in precarious situations to get the support they need so that they are less likely to wind up on the street to begin with. Reducing homelessness is a better goal for trying to reduce the odds of extremely bad things happening to begin with. That goal is mostly not furthered by policies that boil down to "The beatings shall continue until morale improves."

DoreenMichele 9y ago

About 10-15% of the US population is below the Federal poverty line in any given year, but only 2% are chronically poor. This is typically defined as below the Federal poverty line at least 5 years out of 10. My thinking is we need enough low cost housing for 2% of the population. This would help keep the chronically poor -- those with intractable personal problems -- off the street. I am currently thinking a lot about how to address the issue effectively. I am not for growing homeless services or similar programs. My latest project is aimed at making flexible earned income a viable option, for both homeless people and people with the kinds of barriers to employment that can lead to homelessness: http://independentdigitalworkers.blogspot.com http://independentdigitalworkers.blogspot.com It isn't charity. It is part of how I got myself off the street.

Spooky23 9y ago
What about assisted living type arrangements for the chronically poor or mentally ill? I have family members who work in social welfare and housing. The most frustrating and emotionally draining cases for them are when folks don’t have the support network that they need. This was especially true for veterans (including dishonorably discharged), battered women, the mentally ill and substance abusers. Perhaps having someone there to help who is trusted makes a difference. Personally, I find it bizarre when in a thread or other discussion on this topic, compassion is viewed as being permissive to folks living on the streets or in public parks. The US doesn’t need to bring back tenements or have the city park be a camp for the indigent. We’re in a golden age of plenty — with a good plan and a few less aircraft carriers this problem could be a lot better.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  We are in a golden age of plenty where 99 percent of people are losing ground and 1 percent are getting richer. There is certainly a place for supportive services in resolving this, but my personal goal is to restore agency, autonomy and self sufficiency to low income people as much as possible. Given some of your other remarks here, I think it is not unjustified in assuming that you simply see poor people as folks who need to be stripped of rights and bossed around by someone else. This is not my idea if supportive services. I am very leery of people proposing so called supportive services that will actually just be some new means to deny people agency. Charity does not give anyone a middle class life. You get that by working for it. I have special needs and so do my sons. We aren't stupid, lazy or incompetent. We do need maneuvering room to do things as we see fit. That is the very first thing most programs strip you of. Then we wonder why people cannot get out if their mess. I don't expect everyone to be able to solve their problems if given the opportunity. But I do think we currently actively deny poor people opportunities to solve their own problems and then blame them for failing. I would like to see a reduction in the amount that society does to actively undermine poor people.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    I can totally see part of your perspective. Part of what I do as a thought experiment or learning exercise in forums like this is explore and look for meaning in complex issues. I tend to take a hard line on overall risk to the public. I don't live in a place where dropping a cigarette can immolate square miles of land. The thought is terrifying to me. Perhaps that comes off too strong.
    - DoreenMichele 9y ago
      Yes, California has a season I never had anyplace else I lived: Fire Season. I am completely happy to have left that behind. But the reality is that edge cases of this sort usually are not a good place to start basing policy off of. There is a saying along the lines of "Hard cases make bad laws." I am all for finding solutions to help get people off the street and help people in precarious situations to get the support they need so that they are less likely to wind up on the street to begin with. Reducing homelessness is a better goal for trying to reduce the odds of extremely bad things happening to begin with. That goal is mostly not furthered by policies that boil down to "The beatings shall continue until morale improves."