5 ms·

Korea: Crypto is changing the world before our eyes, it's a black and white swan event combined. Better to adapt than stick your head in the sand.

eksemplar 9y ago
Crypto is changing the world. I've made money off of bitcoin, but I've done so responsibly, like I suspect must people on HN have, by only betting what I could easily afford to lose. By going mainstream that sort of reasonable/safe approach has ended, and people are now happily risking their entire savings. This will certainly be great for some people, but it also has the potential to be absolutely devastating. In America you may not care about that, but in my part of the world, this means that we're sitting on a real risk of society having to clean up after a bunch of people lose everything. The old world financial system is regulated to prevent regular people from losing everything on investments. I suspect that in time Crypto will be regulated similarly. This isn't very libertarian, I know, but I'm old enough to have seen a few bubbles burst and the result isn't pretty.
- indubitable 9y ago
  Can you elaborate on "society having to clean up after a bunch of people losing everything."? Perhaps I'm reading too much into your post, but so far as I can tell you're suggesting you reside in a nation with stronger social systems than the US. And a number of people failing, who otherwise would not have, could pose a strain on such systems. Yet this is confusing to me since presumably we're speaking of older individuals. Young individuals are, generally, still earning money and so they are already sustaining their own livelihood regardless of their savings (or [sudden] lack thereof). But back to the older individuals, would these individuals not already be receiving social benefits - healthcare, social security, etc? It seems that their personal dependence on these would increase - but their burden on society would not change, at least not particularly meaningfully. Like I said, probably reading way too much into your comment. Curious what you meant!
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    > Yet this is confusing to me since presumably we're speaking of older individuals. Young individuals are, generally, still earning money and so they are already sustaining their own livelihood regardless of their savings (or [sudden] lack thereof). Plenty of young people are easily to dupe with get-rich-schemes too. And earning money is not that helpful, especially on the poorer end - I mean, imagine that right now all your savings went to 0. Somebody cleared out your savings account and all the spare cash you happen to store around the house. Are you comfortable with that situation because you still have your job? Now consider a person on a regular, shitty, low-paying high-demand job. A loss of all money buffer can, through small unexpected expenses, quickly push someone into poverty. So now these people stop contributing to GDP, because they can't hold a job (had to sell a car to eat, etc.), and they get on welfare, and they are unhappy and spread that unhappiness around, and if there's enough of them, they'll make a stink in the media about government not doing enough to protect their people. This is not something socially desirable.
    - indubitable 9y ago
      You have a contradiction in your logic. Poor people working "regular, shitty, low-paying high-demand jobs" do not have savings. The numbers may vary somewhat by country but here [1] they are for America. 85% have less than $10k. 50% have less than $1k. 34% have $0. And there's probably going to be a pretty good correlation with savings and income. The 15th percentile in household income is about $120,000. Interestingly enough indicating even relatively well off Americans are awful at saving! [1] - https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/09/25/how-much-does-the-average-american-have-in-their-s.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/09/25/how-much-does-the-...
      - TeMPOraL 9y ago
        We were not talking exclusively, or even in particular, about the US, though.
        indubitable 9y ago
- kgwgk 9y ago
  Nothing of value is being created, at least not of the magnitude of the apparent “value” of the bubble, so making money off bitcoin is by definition getting money from someone else. Clearly it cannot work forever, and those who are left holding the bag won’t be happy.
  - pixelpoet 9y ago
    > Nothing of value is being created Just like the entire financial services industry, and yet that gets a pass to wreck the world economy on the reg. It's fine to bail out rich bankers, but normal people? Nooo way can we risk that! Smells like the global elite getting scared of power shift, and telling their lawmaker cronies to get on top of it ASAP.
  - dqpb 9y ago
    For an “infrastructure” that burns dozens of terawatts of power per year I would at least expect fast transactions, and yet...
    - ethanwillis 9y ago
      MFW it takes up to two weeks for an international wire transfer to clear. MFW banks are closed on Sundays.
      - UncleMeat 9y ago
        How many international wire transfers does a typical person make in their life?
        eberkund 9y ago
        I've made a few, but ironically they were all to the bank accounts of cryptocurrency exchanges when I was funding my account.
      - pjc50 9y ago
        There's this thing called the internet which lets you make transactions even when your bank is closed. Also, for most purposes it's safer to do credit card purchases than international wires.
flashmob 9y ago
Relax. Looking across the sea, Japan has been positive on cryptocurrencies. Japan is always Korea's main rival and influencer when it comes to technology and everything else. This rivalry is deeply embedded in the Korean psyche. Most likely they will follow Japan's lead, they would not risk Japan taking any pieces of the crypto-currency pie from them.

eksemplar 9y ago

Crypto is changing the world. I've made money off of bitcoin, but I've done so responsibly, like I suspect must people on HN have, by only betting what I could easily afford to lose. By going mainstream that sort of reasonable/safe approach has ended, and people are now happily risking their entire savings. This will certainly be great for some people, but it also has the potential to be absolutely devastating. In America you may not care about that, but in my part of the world, this means that we're sitting on a real risk of society having to clean up after a bunch of people lose everything. The old world financial system is regulated to prevent regular people from losing everything on investments. I suspect that in time Crypto will be regulated similarly. This isn't very libertarian, I know, but I'm old enough to have seen a few bubbles burst and the result isn't pretty.

indubitable 9y ago
Can you elaborate on "society having to clean up after a bunch of people losing everything."? Perhaps I'm reading too much into your post, but so far as I can tell you're suggesting you reside in a nation with stronger social systems than the US. And a number of people failing, who otherwise would not have, could pose a strain on such systems. Yet this is confusing to me since presumably we're speaking of older individuals. Young individuals are, generally, still earning money and so they are already sustaining their own livelihood regardless of their savings (or [sudden] lack thereof). But back to the older individuals, would these individuals not already be receiving social benefits - healthcare, social security, etc? It seems that their personal dependence on these would increase - but their burden on society would not change, at least not particularly meaningfully. Like I said, probably reading way too much into your comment. Curious what you meant!
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  > Yet this is confusing to me since presumably we're speaking of older individuals. Young individuals are, generally, still earning money and so they are already sustaining their own livelihood regardless of their savings (or [sudden] lack thereof). Plenty of young people are easily to dupe with get-rich-schemes too. And earning money is not that helpful, especially on the poorer end - I mean, imagine that right now all your savings went to 0. Somebody cleared out your savings account and all the spare cash you happen to store around the house. Are you comfortable with that situation because you still have your job? Now consider a person on a regular, shitty, low-paying high-demand job. A loss of all money buffer can, through small unexpected expenses, quickly push someone into poverty. So now these people stop contributing to GDP, because they can't hold a job (had to sell a car to eat, etc.), and they get on welfare, and they are unhappy and spread that unhappiness around, and if there's enough of them, they'll make a stink in the media about government not doing enough to protect their people. This is not something socially desirable.
  - indubitable 9y ago
    You have a contradiction in your logic. Poor people working "regular, shitty, low-paying high-demand jobs" do not have savings. The numbers may vary somewhat by country but here [1] they are for America. 85% have less than $10k. 50% have less than $1k. 34% have $0. And there's probably going to be a pretty good correlation with savings and income. The 15th percentile in household income is about $120,000. Interestingly enough indicating even relatively well off Americans are awful at saving! [1] - https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/09/25/how-much-does-the-average-american-have-in-their-s.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/09/25/how-much-does-the-...
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      We were not talking exclusively, or even in particular, about the US, though.
      - indubitable 9y ago
kgwgk 9y ago
Nothing of value is being created, at least not of the magnitude of the apparent “value” of the bubble, so making money off bitcoin is by definition getting money from someone else. Clearly it cannot work forever, and those who are left holding the bag won’t be happy.
- pixelpoet 9y ago
  > Nothing of value is being created Just like the entire financial services industry, and yet that gets a pass to wreck the world economy on the reg. It's fine to bail out rich bankers, but normal people? Nooo way can we risk that! Smells like the global elite getting scared of power shift, and telling their lawmaker cronies to get on top of it ASAP.
- dqpb 9y ago
  For an “infrastructure” that burns dozens of terawatts of power per year I would at least expect fast transactions, and yet...
  - ethanwillis 9y ago
    MFW it takes up to two weeks for an international wire transfer to clear. MFW banks are closed on Sundays.
    - UncleMeat 9y ago
      How many international wire transfers does a typical person make in their life?
      - eberkund 9y ago
        I've made a few, but ironically they were all to the bank accounts of cryptocurrency exchanges when I was funding my account.
    - pjc50 9y ago
      There's this thing called the internet which lets you make transactions even when your bank is closed. Also, for most purposes it's safer to do credit card purchases than international wires.

flashmob 9y ago

Relax. Looking across the sea, Japan has been positive on cryptocurrencies. Japan is always Korea's main rival and influencer when it comes to technology and everything else. This rivalry is deeply embedded in the Korean psyche. Most likely they will follow Japan's lead, they would not risk Japan taking any pieces of the crypto-currency pie from them.