4 ms·

I'm not a fan of the name "Culture Queries" as that harkens back to the pernicious "not a culture fit" excuse, which is a term used by folks in order to discrim

I'm not a fan of the name "Culture Queries" as that harkens back to the pernicious "not a culture fit" excuse, which is a term used by folks in order to discriminate against candidates under the guise of some amorphous "culture" when really they're just too old, female, gay, or black to hire.

djeikyb 9y ago
i like recycling the phrase. to me, culture is: how frequently devs integrate their work, pull requests vs pair programming, how frequently is work delivered, (how) are devs involved with delivery, if some server related to a project has a problem, who owns it (who helps?), what is the flow of work, how does the team improve itself, how many work hours are expected each week, etc...
nether 9y ago
This is why formal professional culture was invented. You're there to work, not make friends or date. Coworkers are just that; coworkers. The less formal, the more social the environment, and the less inhibited, the more likely lines are to be crossed. Professionalism keeps things under control.
b6 9y ago
Not necessarily. If I were hiring and you expressed something like that to me, I might say you're not a culture fit (with me), and it doesn't have anything to do with your age, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, because I don't even know those things about you.
- cantrip 9y ago
  But what exactly are you referring to when you say they're not a culture fit?
  - b6 9y ago
    "Not a culture fit" could easily mean something like "this person and I have a very fundamental (probably irreconcilable) disagreement about something important". Fundamental disagreements are probably going to result in disagreements about things that emanate somehow from the more fundamental thing. For example, some people seem to think that when they go to work, they do so voluntarily as part of a mutually beneficial arrangement with their employer. Some people think something more like that they are forced to work and are essentially a slave. These two people will probably have disagreements about ideas that are further from the root than their idea about whether they are essentially free or slaves. If I were looking for someone to work with, I would be looking not just for the necessary skills, but for deep compatibility. You seemed to be saying "not a culture fit" is just a way of rejecting people without seeming racist/sexist, but I think it's pretty clear that's not true.
    - cantrip 9y ago
      But the example you cited is not a legitimate legal reason to dismiss a candidate in the United States. It is a philosophical belief and thus protected by the Equality Act of 2010.
      - b6 9y ago
        I think I've shown your original contention is wrong, or at least incomplete or simplistic. I'm not qualified or inclined to debate US law.
        cantrip 9y ago
        I wholeheartedly disagree and do not believe you have done anything other than support my thesis. Fundamental disagreements about something important are the very definition of political / philosophical belief. If someone does not possess the technical skills to do the job, they can be dismissed from consideration, but "compatibility" with your preexisting beliefs is in no way a valid reason. Could you legally disqualify me from employment because I disagree with you on this very point? No. But you seem to be saying that you would anyway.

djeikyb 9y ago

i like recycling the phrase. to me, culture is: how frequently devs integrate their work, pull requests vs pair programming, how frequently is work delivered, (how) are devs involved with delivery, if some server related to a project has a problem, who owns it (who helps?), what is the flow of work, how does the team improve itself, how many work hours are expected each week, etc...

nether 9y ago

This is why formal professional culture was invented. You're there to work, not make friends or date. Coworkers are just that; coworkers. The less formal, the more social the environment, and the less inhibited, the more likely lines are to be crossed. Professionalism keeps things under control.

b6 9y ago

Not necessarily. If I were hiring and you expressed something like that to me, I might say you're not a culture fit (with me), and it doesn't have anything to do with your age, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, because I don't even know those things about you.

cantrip 9y ago
But what exactly are you referring to when you say they're not a culture fit?
- b6 9y ago
  "Not a culture fit" could easily mean something like "this person and I have a very fundamental (probably irreconcilable) disagreement about something important". Fundamental disagreements are probably going to result in disagreements about things that emanate somehow from the more fundamental thing. For example, some people seem to think that when they go to work, they do so voluntarily as part of a mutually beneficial arrangement with their employer. Some people think something more like that they are forced to work and are essentially a slave. These two people will probably have disagreements about ideas that are further from the root than their idea about whether they are essentially free or slaves. If I were looking for someone to work with, I would be looking not just for the necessary skills, but for deep compatibility. You seemed to be saying "not a culture fit" is just a way of rejecting people without seeming racist/sexist, but I think it's pretty clear that's not true.
  - cantrip 9y ago
    But the example you cited is not a legitimate legal reason to dismiss a candidate in the United States. It is a philosophical belief and thus protected by the Equality Act of 2010.
    - b6 9y ago
      I think I've shown your original contention is wrong, or at least incomplete or simplistic. I'm not qualified or inclined to debate US law.
      - cantrip 9y ago
        I wholeheartedly disagree and do not believe you have done anything other than support my thesis. Fundamental disagreements about something important are the very definition of political / philosophical belief. If someone does not possess the technical skills to do the job, they can be dismissed from consideration, but "compatibility" with your preexisting beliefs is in no way a valid reason. Could you legally disqualify me from employment because I disagree with you on this very point? No. But you seem to be saying that you would anyway.